Online emergency meeting of British scientists and politicians tomorrow

[JanFebAnyMonth]

www.johnsnowmemo.com/summitdeclaration.html?fbclid=IwAR1ip9v81nlZUTBIN46cKEOhvqmr3n2ISfEGYsUI8WKkb7ZEMnoM6jUEwPQ

JOHN SNOW MEMORANDUM
EMERGENCY SUMMIT AGAINST MASS INFECTION
THURSDAY 8th JULY, 10:00 am

We are holding an emergency summit to outline our concerns about the UK government’s current strategy to abandon most restrictions in England on the 19th July in the midst of a surging pandemic. We have outlined our concerns in a letter to The Lancet (embargoed until 23.30hrs UK time on Wednesday 7 July 2021), now signed by more than 120 of the world's leading scientists. At the summit we will outline our grave concerns about the UK government’s dangerous and reckless strategy, and the urgent steps we need to take to protect the public.

PROGRAMME

Statement from Scientists and Medical Doctors
Professor Trish Greenhalgh, Professor of Primary Care Health Sciences, Medical Sciences Division, University of Oxford
Dr. Richard Horton, Editor-in-Chief of The Lancet
Professor Kailash Chand, Honorary Vice President of the British Medical Association and former deputy chair of the BMA
Dr. Deepti Gurdasani, Clinical Epidemiologist and Senior Lecturer in Machine Learning, Queen Mary University of London

Q&A session
Panel will include all speakers and:
Dr. Rachel Clarke, NHS palliative care doctor and author
Sir David King, former Chief Scientific adviser and chair of Independent SAGE
Professor Susan Michie, Professor of Health Psychology, University College London and member of Independent SAGE
Caroline Lucas, MP, Former Leader of the Green Party of England and Wales
Richard Burgon, MP, Labour MP for Leeds East
Debbie Abrahams, MP, Labour MP for Oldham East and Saddleworth
Philippa Whitford, MP, Scottish National Party MP for Central Ayrshire
Barbara Keeley, MP, Labour MP for Worsley and Eccles South

This event will be livestreamed at: and on Twitter at @allthecitizens.

We will be taking questions from the press and public. Please contact us at [email protected] if you'd like to ask a question.

Please join us at 10am tomorrow

@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross

I hope they are meeting to outline their alternative proposal which will allow perfectly healthy people to stop being bounced in and out of isolation like tennis balls and let them stay in school/work; that will ensure that the hospitality and entertainment industry is allowed to stay afloat; that will ensure that the NHS, GPs and dentists get properly up and running again to tackle the huge backlog; that will identify a clear exit strategy...

I mean, what are they going to propose instead that recognises the gravity of the financial and social precipice we're on? Or is it really the case that people can now only see Covid, that nothing else matters?

that will ensure that the hospitality and entertainment industry is allowed to stay afloat; that will ensure that the NHS, GPs and dentists get properly up and running again to tackle the huge backlog

These two aims are competing, not aligned with each other. The first needs us to behave as if we don't care about covid rates, the second needs covid rates as low as possible.

Maybe there's still a case to be made for what we're doing now and after July 19th, but don't kid yourself that it's going to help health and dental care get back to normal.

@RafaIsTheKingOfClay

Just checked the ONS prevalence study. The estimate the actually come up with for the number of people who had covid and still had symptoms after 12weeks is 13.7%.

So c. 13,000 long covid cases a day if their predictions of 100,000 cases a day if we open up with no mitigation?

@SamusIsAGirl

It is more a general aspect of science in that there isn't much time or money given to reproducing other people's results when you are pushed to do your own original research.

There was some data on the oxidation of tungsten that had been treated as gospel for 60 years that was only recently reviewed.

There was a Nobel prize winner who recently retracted a paper because no-one else could reproduce her results.

@SamusIsAGirl yes I'm in epi, I know there's a real issue with published work

what I simply meant is that Horton is referring to papers in general, and I don't think he's casually saying that in the Lancet, 50% of work is too underpowered to be useful, hindered by multiple testing, inappropriate methods etc etc. As that would be a ridiculous statement to make about the journal you are an editor of.

We don't really know re long covid how it will pan out or how many will be affected.

There are suggestions that it might be helped with vaccines for example.

Chris Whitty has expressed concern about it, in his usual measured way.

Seems to me that the underlying and unanswered issue is what is preventing the government from listening to the science?

I'd be interested to hear from an economist on what the impact is of the health recommendations. A Tory government who are going to be in charge for a long time is always going to focus on the money.

Must admit, I felt a little chill when it was stated that it is the old, the poor and BAME populations who bear the brunt of this virus. If I was a Tory minister I'd want to make sure the country knew I believed that these people are valued members of our communities and not seen as a fiscal drain by WM.

I watched and had nothing but respect for them. I was saddened by the low turnout of viewers. I have long covid, I lost a relative to COVID. I sadly lost a parent during the lockdown (not covid) and had to arrange funeral with awfully limitations, I want normality to return but not at the cost of more lives (covid and other conditions) or people affected with long covid.

It is widely acknowledged that health and wealth are inextricably linked. Increase the wealth of all, and better health follows.

...and do nothing to help the disadvantaged and aged and save yourself some benefits and pensions, BigWoolly.

God, this world has made me cynical.

@Bunnyfuller

Scientists, politicians, whoever.

If you watched the football last night, it is quite clear the stable door is wiiiiiiide open and all the ponies are galloping all over the place as much as they like.

Meanwhile Japan (pretty switched on scientifically and economically) declares a state of emergency due to their rocketing cases.

For those who genuinely don’t see a threat, can you explain to thick little me, why we’ve not just cracked on with it without doing anything? Why we’ve backtracked sooooo many times when numbers accelerate time and again? Why, despite the double vaccine, the vaccinated are still getting ill, and some seriously?

You would almost think that viruses evolved by being able to spread more, would you? Still, it won’t evolve to be more dangerous, will it? Or to be able to evade the vaccines?

Agreed

Keeping face coverings where they apply now, not having large scale events until the impact of Wembley and Wimbledon this week are known, and keeping the 'work from home' guidance would be reasonable mitigations.

Which would allow economic activity that has resumed to continue.

They will come from one angle only though when the government need to consider more factors in such as the state of the economy...

@Doubledoorsontogarden

I watched and had nothing but respect for them. I was saddened by the low turnout of viewers. I have long covid, I lost a relative to COVID. I sadly lost a parent during the lockdown (not covid) and had to arrange funeral with awfully limitations, I want normality to return but not at the cost of more lives (covid and other conditions) or people affected with long covid.

Is there a test for long covid? Or how do people know they have long covid. Not trying to be goady I'm genuinely interested in how people know.

@Horehound no there is not.

And there’s a massive study been done in children where reported “long Covid” does not correlate to positive tests. It’s interesting.

Obviously you can get fairly long term recovery from any nasty respiratory disease. But there’s also talk of a combination of factors, including ptsd and anxiety, with physical symptoms.

The NHS will have to work out a way not to give priority to Covid patients as a matter of course. As has been the rule hitherto.
All other activities of a hospital must continue, oncology, heart and other departments must remain open.

Thanks @WouldBeGood I just looked up the symptoms myself and just wrote on another thread that a lot of these symptoms could be attributed to lots of other health issues. It seems a bit over inflated to me and the NHS say most people who do have long covid recover within 12 weeks anyway.
Like, pins and needles or tinnitus can be a symptom...I can't get worked up about it. I have tinnitus and have down for years
Big deal 🤷
I feel like anyone who has pins and needles will be like ohh I have long covid I need 12 weeks of work
I can't see how you can get PTSD from having covid mildly Are we all just becoming a bit...soft?!

They’re just whistling in the wind, unfortunately.

@Horehound

Thanks *@WouldBeGood* I just looked up the symptoms myself and just wrote on another thread that a lot of these symptoms could be attributed to lots of other health issues. It seems a bit over inflated to me and the NHS say most people who do have long covid recover within 12 weeks anyway. Like, pins and needles or tinnitus can be a symptom...I can't get worked up about it. I have tinnitus and have down for years Big deal 🤷 I feel like anyone who has pins and needles will be like ohh I have long covid I need 12 weeks of work I can't see how you can get PTSD from having covid mildly Are we all just becoming a bit...soft?!

Yeah damn those pins and needles eh?

Or read some well known facts:

www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n693

I watched this too and all I got from it was their need to keep us all locked up with draconian measures for a lifetime. If the female Indian scientist said the word 'mask' once she said it a hundred times. Does she have share in mask production? I'm sick to the back teeth of people saying they are tiny inconvenience, they are are small price to pay. Not once in the hour and a half did they mention Mental Health and what this will do to our NHS, if these restrictions carry on much longer. I found the whole thing very depressing, and in fact, quite frightening. If there is such a danger to everyone like they were making out, surely our pubs and restaurants should be closed again. Is there anywhere safe? Oh, and don't the vaccines count for anything? And then a woman stated that 'facemasks should be the new normal'. Aye right.

@markmichelle

The NHS will have to work out a way not to give priority to Covid patients as a matter of course. As has been the rule hitherto.
All other activities of a hospital must continue, oncology, heart and other departments must remain open.

I genuinely wonder what you propose they might do? This seems an impossible task to me.

@chickenyhead so this is a study of people who had Acute covid that were treated in hospital, then discharged then readmitted for symptoms of long covid? What % of the UK population had covid and what % of them were admitted to hospital?

@markmichelle

The NHS will have to work out a way not to give priority to Covid patients as a matter of course. As has been the rule hitherto. All other activities of a hospital must continue, oncology, heart and other departments must remain open.

but what on earth do you suggest is the alternative? Turf COVID patients out when they need ICU treatment? Just let COVID+ patients mix with other vulnerable people?

The issue is that we are predicted to have 100,000 new cases a day. If just 10% needed hospital treatment his will mean hospitals will be saturated and unable to offer safe care to non-COVID patients, meaning their healthcare will suffer.

d'oh fat fingers, that was supposed to say 1%!

@markmichelle

The NHS will have to work out a way not to give priority to Covid patients as a matter of course. As has been the rule hitherto. All other activities of a hospital must continue, oncology, heart and other departments must remain open.

They can simply replace all the human staff with robots solving the problem of the thousands of soon to be infected staff.

Thank you. Good science as we know is based on consensus.Let's build one. Mumsnet important here
Lol MN randoms -do much for ‘science’
Deluded - much?.

@Ginandfantalemon

I watched this too and all I got from it was their need to keep us all locked up with draconian measures for a lifetime. If the female Indian scientist said the word 'mask' once she said it a hundred times. Does she have share in mask production? I'm sick to the back teeth of people saying they are tiny inconvenience, they are are small price to pay. Not once in the hour and a half did they mention Mental Health and what this will do to our NHS, if these restrictions carry on much longer. I found the whole thing very depressing, and in fact, quite frightening. If there is such a danger to everyone like they were making out, surely our pubs and restaurants should be closed again. Is there anywhere safe? Oh, and don't the vaccines count for anything? And then a woman stated that 'facemasks should be the new normal'. Aye right.

Well said