No masks after 19th July- despite the scientific consensus for them

[herecomesthsun]

I happened to notice that we had reached 1000 posts on the other thread - so I started a new one .

@chickenyhead - it's not though is it? You wear a mask to protect others, not yourself. High level of mask compliance where I live. Not all self centred arseholes.

I will continue to wear them to protect the vulnerable and elderly.

1. The jury is out on protection for others particularly with the new variations of the virus and it was never very definitive anyway on whether masks do any good at all.
2. We protect people best by getting back to normal - that is the greater good - not keeping masks. We protect more people by giving up masks. We harm fewer people by removing masks.

Jeremy Bentham strikes again, how's the view from the panopticon?

My transalation of @Xenia's post:

1. I don't want to wear a mask, so unless someone can prove that they are 100% effective, 100% of the time, I think we should just give them up.
2. A small piece of cloth on your face means that normal life as we know it grinds to a halt. No one can run a business, we can't go out, we can't educate our children or get healthcare. If we just gave up masks we could get back to normal and everything would be ok. Well, lots of people will get sick, some will get very ill and some will die, but hey, the greatest happiness for the greatest number, right?

HTH.

@Xenia - wow masks can do all that, who knew?!

[quote luckylavender]**@Xenia* @Stuffin* - masks protect others more than they protect you. So what you're actually saying is you would rather not protect people than wear a mask. Have I got that right? [/quote]
I can't speak for them, but I'm happy to put myself in the stocks.

@takemetocedarpoint

This is what infuriates me about the masks debate. It’s so selfish to say “I’m not worried about my risk so I won’t wear one”. When will people understand that you wear them not to protect yourself but out of consideration for those around you?

People have to take responsibility for themselves though.

Individuals have no responsibility at all to anyone else - if you are vulnerable, and fear catching covid, then you need to take responsibility for yourself and stay at home.

[quote luckylavender]**@Xenia* @Stuffin* - masks protect others more than they protect you. So what you're actually saying is you would rather not protect people than wear a mask. Have I got that right? [/quote]
Yes. Honestly it is not my responsibility to make others feel safe.

Those that are CEV adults have been double vaccinated. It's as good as it's going to get as covid is not going anywhere and I have no plans to mask up forever. As for CEV children then I don't come across any children let alone CEV.

'I would rather have a much higher risk of death to me and my children but no masks so support the decision to remove them on 19 July.'

This is mad. You would rather potentially die than wear a piece of cloth on your face?

People can’t just stay at home - they have to go to school and work. It’s not much to ask of others to help protect the CEV by wearing a mask.

There have been a number of ways to manage the pandemic. The vaccination programme has been very successful although I hate Boris taking credit for it when his actions put more people at risk. Together with social distancing and wearing a mask, the numbers of deaths have reduced and taken the pressure off the NHS. If the number of people with Covid needing hospital treatment, the backlog of other treatments will suffer as there won’t be the beds and staff available. Unfortunately some hospitals (Leeds and Scottish Highlands) are already having to postpone surgery due to staff and bed shortages .

@EmmaOvary

'I would rather have a much higher risk of death to me and my children but no masks so support the decision to remove them on 19 July.'

This is mad. You would rather potentially die than wear a piece of cloth on your face?

The average age of a covid death is 83.

The vast majority of younger deaths have been due in the main to obesity and to a letter extent, underlying medical conditions.

The chances of a person of working age, of normal BMI dying of covid is minuscule.

You’re talking nonsense.

[quote luckylavender]**@Xenia* @Stuffin* - masks protect others more than they protect you. So what you're actually saying is you would rather not protect people than wear a mask. Have I got that right? [/quote]
Yes. I have no responsibility to anyone other than myself and my dc.

• it's so much harder to take responsibility for ourselves when covid is something passed to us by others!

We can take responsibility for other things like stopping eating rubbish but how do I stop you breathing covid over me? When I'm having to go out for my job etc!

@GreenWillow I do hope none of the CEV people you couldn't care less about happen to be doctors or nurses you need for healthcare, or teachers who teach your kids, or anyone you need for anything.

[quote EmmaOvary]@GreenWillow I do hope none of the CEV people you couldn't care less about happen to be doctors or nurses you need for healthcare, or teachers who teach your kids, or anyone you need for anything. [/quote]
These people are of working age, will have been offered the vaccine and are statistically very unlikely to be CEV anyway.

They are very unlikely to suffer badly from a covid infection.

I do hope none of the CEV people you couldn't care less about happen to be doctors or nurses you need for healthcare, or teachers who teach your kids, or anyone you need for anything.

That's emotional blackmail - people do that when they don't have a reasonable argument. The CEV people in those sorts of jobs likely know enough about themselves to mitigate the risks, are double vaccinated and are aware of their surroundings.

@Lemonmelonsun

* it's so much harder to take responsibility for ourselves when covid is something passed to us by others!

We can take responsibility for other things like stopping eating rubbish but how do I stop you breathing covid over me? When I'm having to go out for my job etc!

You will need to find another job.

We can’t keep sacrificing our civil liberties to enable you.

Plenty of CEV CAN'T have the vaccine, @GreenWillow, do you realise that? It's not safe, or it's not effective for them.

@Enb76

I do hope none of the CEV people you couldn't care less about happen to be doctors or nurses you need for healthcare, or teachers who teach your kids, or anyone you need for anything.

That's emotional blackmail - people do that when they don't have a reasonable argument. The CEV people in those sorts of jobs likely know enough about themselves to mitigate the risks, are double vaccinated and are aware of their surroundings.

And there are many other unnecessary everyday activities which we all engage in on a daily basis which create risks to others and could kill those medics (or many others), but we all still do them.

(Maybe not you to be fair @EmmaOvary, you do seem to be a paragon )

Civil liberties is another comment which is ridiculous. We haven’t had our liberties restricted. Changes (which no one has liked or enjoyed) have been put in place to try and keep the numbers of Covid cases needing hospital treatment as low as possible.

@Lemonmelonsun have you considered a job as a lighthouse keeper? We'll go on then, chop chop, your vulnerability is inconveniencing the rest of us.

@MurielSpriggs spurious at best, that argument. We're talking about wearing a bit of cloth over the face to prevent a very real risk. But you crack on.

@EmmaOvary

Plenty of CEV CAN'T have the vaccine, *@GreenWillow*, do you realise that? It's not safe, or it's not effective for them.

Then they need to take responsibility for their own health and stay at home.

@GreenWillow you seem nice.

@Parker231

Civil liberties is another comment which is ridiculous. We haven’t had our liberties restricted. Changes (which no one has liked or enjoyed) have been put in place to try and keep the numbers of Covid cases needing hospital treatment as low as possible.

This is just a non-argument.

We have all had our civil liberties removed.

It cannot go on.