100,000 cases a day by August....bloody hell

[ssd]

We're all going to get it eventually it seems

@MrKlaw

Government has just managed the messaging really badly. If they came out and said something like 'we know these steps are likely to continue to show an increase in positive cases, but we are now focusing on ensuring hospitalisation numbers remain low and controlled, as we move through to a more managed situation'

rather than 'freedom day!' nonsense.

I think the messaging is about right. How are they focusing on ensuring hospitalisation numbers remain low and controlled? What they are doing is the opposite of a managed situation.

@MrKlaw

Government has just managed the messaging really badly. If they came out and said something like 'we know these steps are likely to continue to show an increase in positive cases, but we are now focusing on ensuring hospitalisation numbers remain low and controlled, as we move through to a more managed situation'

rather than 'freedom day!' nonsense.

I agree. I think they're pitching it all wrong and calling it 'freedom day' is triggering in the minds of some that's its full steam ahead to 2019 normal - which isn't the case

The message should be that we still need to exercise caution and be self aware of the risk.

Though regardless of the fact that the football, Ascot, Wimbledon etc have been test events, I do think the message has been given out that there's one rule for us and a totally different one when there's big corporate money involved and this has made a lot of people think 'why should I stick to the rules if they don't'

@LilyPond2

Government has clearly given up on trying to protect vulnerable people for whom the vaccine is less effective, and vulnerable children who are not eligible for the vaccine.

Are we actually just supposed to stay in lockdown forever though ? A lot of us including myself have mental health problems after all this, I’ve done my part up until now and I really can’t cope with any more lockdowns and I don’t want to put my children through it any longer too, because this virus is not going anywhere and we can not just stay in lockdown forever. I know people and children who are vulnerable but does that mean that everybody else should stop living life too ? I’m really not meaning that to sound in the wrong way, but even if I was in the position of being vulnerable ( thankfully I’m not) I would go out and live my life because their is risks with everything we do every single day not just covid. We can’t just stop life any more

Some people will want restrictions to continue another month, another year, forever. Why is Covid the issue and not other things like cancer deaths, people not being able to see their GP etc.

Yes, there are people who are vunerable and need/want to shield. We cannot continue like this forever.

It really isnt all about Coivd (or shouldnt be) and if some people are nervous, continue with the online shopping, only go out when necessary, wear masks but you cannot surely expect the vast majority of the population to continue like this.

Government has clearly given up on trying to protect vulnerable people for whom the vaccine is less effective, and vulnerable children who are not eligible for the vaccine.

They are protecting them by vaccinating everybody else.

No, people with vulnerabilities will just see this as yet another example of them being treated as second class citizens with their rights and needs being ignored for the sake of some supposed wider benefit, for the apparent greater good.

*It won't come as any surprise to them, it happened long before covid.

What do you propose should happen? Do you genuinely think that the vast majority of the population should live under restrictions forever so that the vulnerable are safer from all infections? What do you see as the best way of living with this disease?

The restrictions at this stage at stopping a whole host of business from operating normally. Pubs, clubs, restaurants, cinemas, theatre, concerts, gigs & other social/cultural events all rely on large gatherings of people being permitted. Some people see pubs etc. as insignificant, but culturally, we would be a poorer nation if we lost all these things. Do you really want to see an end to live theatre etc. forever?

(^ bold fail)

@unim

There are other options.

If you look at New Zealand (also an island) they are doing much better than us not only in terms of deaths and Covid cases but economically!

Saying "well, we have to open up sometime" is fake news. It's perfectly possible to curb the spread of this virus - and better economically - look at New Zealand, Vietnam, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan.

They are doing better than us by a LONG shot. Including their economies.

Our government has just fucked up. It's not inevitable - they've just made poor choices.

We missed the boat for curbing the level of community spread of Covid a long time ago. Like back in the first half of 2020.

If we were starting again, yes, we should do things differently. But we're starting from where we are, which is with Covid endemic in the community. We are not going to achieve zero covid.

CEV people hopefully can isolate whilst the rest all get herd immunity, and then once it wanes those who are CEV can start going out again.

What do people who are CEV usually do during flu season? Is it common to isolate during winter months?

The problem is that Johnson and chums have made such a fucking mess that some of what is proposed now, in the context of having fucked everything up so far, kind of makes some insane sense and probably why Sage are reluctant brides at the wedding.

What do you propose should happen? Do you genuinely think that the vast majority of the population should live under restrictions forever so that the vulnerable are safer from all infections? What do you see as the best way of living with this disease?

I think people should stop using hyperbole like 'forever'.

I think we should follow the SAGE advice which suggests the number at which vaccination will protect the herd.

I think we should stop just assuming we can ignore vulnerable people and insist they isolate for the benefit of society. After all, if the numbers about long covid are accurate, there will be a whole lot more vulnerable people who rely on people not to be selfish dicks.

What do people who are CEV usually do during flu season

Covid isn't flu. It is far more transmissable and treatable for a start.

Just listening to PMQ’s - Boris is completely and unmoved by the questioning of what he makes of the projections of 2-3 million people being in isolation by August. There is no answer of substance, it’s all bluster and accusations of being against freedom.

Again completely ignoring the point that high rates of covid making any ‘freedoms’ pointless.

God it’s embarrassing when he descends into prepared one liners instead of talking like a human being. Twat.

I don't really think that asking people to wear masks indoors is a serious restriction on our liberties.

It's the kind of minor inconvenience that most people are happy to accept if it's for the greater good.

There are other laws already in place that involve a similar level of restriction for our own good as a society.. for example we all seem perfectly happy with laws saying people should wear clothes rather than be naked in public... that we should obey speed limits... that we should wear seat belts...

I think it's quite ridiculous that the government haven't continued to follow the well-established scientific evidence on masks, which are a minor inconvenience at worst (and not required for those who are exempt).

But in addition they should also distinguish between the number of people in hospital because they have Covid, and the number who are in hospital with something else and test positive for Covid.

That's a very good point @tigger1001

I think people should stop using hyperbole like 'forever'

I used to think the same, until it became obvious that some really do see this as an option; address one issue and something else instantly takes it's place, be that Long Covid, another variant or whatever else

Nobody suggests that anything about this entire mess is simple, but the fact remains that Covid isn't the only thing to be considered, even if it's all some want to focus on

I don't really think that asking people to wear masks indoors is a serious restriction on our liberties.

I don’t either. I wouldn’t have objected if they stayed. But then again I don’t go to nightclubs these days - I think I’d have seriously objected to wearing one there!

They aren’t comparable to normal clothing though. Wearing a t shirt doesn’t make it harder to anyone to understand what I’m saying when I speak. I did find it much harder to hear what children were saying in my classroom though. And identifying which child was whispering when I was talking was nigh on impossible - which has implications for their (and their classmates) learning. Not much in comparison to hospitalisation and death, but insignificant either.

Does no-one on this thread have teens/early twenties DC's or relatives.

I can tell you, they are well and truly done. They are (and truth be told, have been for some time), going to work, going out, dating (and snogging!) random people, going to cinemas, pubs, restaurants, out in groups, to other peoples houses in groups. Hence why the infection rate is greatest in this demographic. However, they do still wear masks in shops and on public transport, are all getting vaccinated, and are all getting on with their lives. I think we should all do the same.

@BigWoollyJumpers

Does no-one on this thread have teens/early twenties DC's or relatives.

I can tell you, they are well and truly done. They are (and truth be told, have been for some time), going to work, going out, dating (and snogging!) random people, going to cinemas, pubs, restaurants, out in groups, to other peoples houses in groups. Hence why the infection rate is greatest in this demographic. However, they do still wear masks in shops and on public transport, are all getting vaccinated, and are all getting on with their lives. I think we should all do the same.

I do. I agree they are done. Dd1 had to self isolate 3 times when at uni, in her room on her own, rung by track and trace two or three times a day. It was like prison she says and she is refusing to ever do it again. She's had one jab and due her second in a couple of weeks.

My teen is not doing any of that (has not discovered snogging yet, give him time). He is still at school though, the only year left in the whole school. That is his exposure to risk.

I am encouraging mine to grab any opportunity to socialise with both hands.

Unless the government can find any scientist who will says “wear a mask or don’t wear a mask, it’s up to you” then their current policy is absolutely negligent.

Does no-one on this thread have teens/early twenties DC's or relatives. I can tell you, they are well and truly done. They are (and truth be told, have been for some time), going to work, going out, dating (and snogging!) random people, going to cinemas, pubs, restaurants, out in groups, to other peoples houses in groups

Not all teens and early 20's. Maybe lots, maybe many, but not all. Some are doing all of this; some are just going to work and doing some socialising, but with caution.

I'm rarely in favour of lumping 'all' teens and young people together, in one homogeneous mass, and attaching behavioural/social/emotional trends to the lot of them, and here we are again.

They have a sociologist who is saying that.

Not many actual medical doctors think like that, though. The general consensus is that masks help a bit.