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Did it seem a bit odd that the tone of today's announcement was so sombre?

595 replies

secretintrovert · 05/07/2021 21:52

Bojo should have been doing his victory dance for freedom day! Instead the three of them looked as miserable as sin. There's trouble afoot methinks. This will be very very temporary

OP posts:
ChloeCrocodile · 05/07/2021 22:37

If 12+ the safety tests have been done.

Yes, it has passed a level of safety testing, sufficient to get MHRA approval for that age group. But to recommend its use in children the JCVI need to check that the risk of complications from the vaccine is lower than the risk from covid. The risk of complications of covid is so small in children that they need a lot of data on the vaccine in children, more than was collected in the trials. They are awaiting further safety data from other countries who are vaccinating children before they make a decision. Sensible imo.

PhilSwagielka · 05/07/2021 22:40

Lockdown has unofficially been over for ages anyway.

Tealightsandd · 05/07/2021 22:43

And the alternative is?

Listen to to the experts. The WHO, and our own doctors and scientists. Mitigate the risks.

We can't completely get rid of the risks, no, (thanks to countries like the UK) but we can reduce them.

Very simple easy measures. Like masks in poorly ventilated enclosed spaces.

I bet some eldely ex smokers are regretting giving up an activity (smoking) that gave them a lot of pleasure. Stop smoking, they were told. It shortens your life. Covid hits. Suck it up and die, they're told...

Bagamoyo1 · 05/07/2021 22:43

@Tealightsandd

we will just have to get used to the elderly and vulnerable dying earlier than they would have in the pre covid era.

A hell of a lot younger in the case of the many millions of young vulnerable. Their tax is good enough to take, so should steps be taken to protect their lives.

If doesn't take much to wear a mask. People in East Asian countries have done it for years.

Remind me why people are told not to exercise their personal choice to smoke? Ah that's it. It shortens your life.....

Hmmm. I have a suggestion. Covid kills, gives no pleasure, and costs the economy. Smoking, on the other hand, reduces the risk of needing a care home, is enjoyable (for many), and brings in a net gain to the economy.

How does smoking reduce the risk of needing a care home?
SonnetForSpring · 05/07/2021 22:44

@Quartz2208

I dont think there was anything hidden in this I think it was clear that the Delta variant is such that suppressing it down to nothing is next to impossible given where we are. So it has become a choice as to when we have this wave. We have held off to get as many double vaccinated and single vaccinated as we can. And the summer is a much better time to do it rather than winter.

In effect we could actually cause more damage by trying to suppress it both with the implications of lockdown and the fact it would simply push it into a winter that is expected to have not only Covid but Flu and RSV

This was never going to be victory dance freedom day because this isnt a war we have won. We have simply reached the point where the best choice out of some fairly stark choices is to remove restrictions and see what has happened. And there will be consequences due to this in terms of death and long covid.

As to why masks disappeared - I think that one was a political move, I am not sure Boris Johnson was willing to risk being voted against. The message was though very much wear it. In some ways though maybe common sense and personal choice is needed. Also though business can make them mandatory - airlines already have

Agree.
Tealightsandd · 05/07/2021 22:45

@PhilSwagielka

Lockdown has unofficially been over for ages anyway.
Yes. Today was simply about measures that will actively kill and disable. Quite avoidably. Masks are a simple and easy mitigation measure, meant to be part of opening up and "living with' a disease that kills and disables.
thelastgoldeneagle · 05/07/2021 22:46

@OnlyFoolsnMothers - what an appropriate user name!🙄🙄

Numbers are rising because we vaccinated the elderly first- we could have kept transmission numbers low and deaths high by vaccinating the young first!

Are you insane?? Why vaccinate the young against a virus that doesn't kill them but that kills older people? For fuck's sake.

Honey12346 · 05/07/2021 22:46

@GreenWillow

The whole idea was to prevent the nhs collapsing, not ‘saving lives’, whatever we might have been told to the contrary.

The nhs is looking like it will be able to cope, but yes, there will be more deaths.

Covid is here to stay, we will just have to get used to the elderly and vulnerable dying earlier than they would have in the pre covid era.

This is why the message was sombre - out of respect to those who will lose their lives to Covid. It’s a truly awful situation, but there isn’t really any alternative.

The average age of covid deaths is higher than the average life expectancy in the UK, so technically older folks are dying later than pre covid.
Tealightsandd · 05/07/2021 22:48

How does smoking reduce the risk of needing a care home?

You die before you need one. Heart attack, massive stroke, etc. People are told not to smoke because it 'shortens your life'.

LAlady · 05/07/2021 22:48

Pretty much sums it up

Did it seem a bit odd that the tone of today's announcement was so sombre?
Quartz2208 · 05/07/2021 22:49

The 12-15 isn’t a government decision though it is currently with the jcvi an independent body made up of scientists. They haven’t made a recommendation yet

Lemonmelonsun · 05/07/2021 22:49

Winter, is... Coming.

Absolutely, I've already said this, they are absolutely shit scared.
This is really let it rip time, not for any other reason than we are in a delta third wave. Ie not because of amazing lock down that has surpressed cases and we are on our way out.

No, we are about to dive right in... It's a living experiment folks.

Personally I know this crap will last a few years and I can cope with lock downs briefly as needed staggered not total, if we can live normally in between..

Jenasaurus · 05/07/2021 22:52

So does the no more masks come into force on 19th July?

o8T8o · 05/07/2021 22:53

rock and a hard place, the devil or the deep blue sea:(

Tealightsandd · 05/07/2021 22:54

The average age of covid deaths is higher than average life expectancy in the UK

Have they finally released the data on the recent deaths? It had gone quiet in that regard. We do know that the hospitalisations have been younger people. It would therefore be reasonable to assume so are the deaths.

Meanwhile. Long Covid klaxon.

Definitely time to take up smoking though people. It's not as though living longer and being elderly is valued in this society. And also the economy could do with a boost. Smoking brings a net gain to the economy. Unlike Covid.

RosaMoline · 05/07/2021 22:55

Some of these posts have a definite air of ‘we’re all doomed’
I was feeling quite optimistic recently too.
A couple of weeks back there were gloomy posts about the ‘Nepalese variant’
What happen to that then?
Now it’s the ‘Lamda’…

RedToothBrush · 05/07/2021 22:55

Interestingly if you listen to the experts the tone is changing though with Delta though. There is increasing widespread acknowledgement that it cant be contained compared with previous variants. Thats the problem.

I was reading what Singapore's strategy is and how they intend to exit restrictions. Its remarkably similar to the Uks.

Australia and NZ are starting to change tact about zero covid and what happens next too. There is a growing acknowledgement there that Delta changes things and its an issue.

I acknowledge that there are a few things I think the uk government could do differently (masks being the no1 thing here) but I also think that we've had some of the longest, most harsh restrictions in the world and that cant be discounted in terms of how effective restrictions can remain.

It may be a simple choice between restriction now or in the winter when we perhaps need them more.

Is it realistic to think the majority or people will carry on like this much longer?

My friends who are teachers or run kids groups are noticing the kids are pretty much feral for want of a better word. The status quo is untenable for things like that alone.

Even if the government kept restrictions they are only sustainable with public support. I think that support is waning and at the point of collasping in the near future. After that point they become unenforceable and a point of active public unrest.

We did actually exceed expectations on restrictions, and thats given a lot of people a chance.

The big thing here is that what is advised by health bodies and officials doesn't also take into account the behavioural science side of things and balance that with other health issues which governments do.

Its easy to say we should do x, y and z in principle. In practice things are as simple as that.

Lemonmelonsun · 05/07/2021 22:55

Red, I agree, sadly I at some point we can't escape covid...

What I find odd is why not say its a wave we have to ride, we will need short term and some slightly longer term manoeuvres for a while yet to manage our way out?

I absolutely hate this black and white approach.. It scares me to think Chris's whitty is white over the winter and yet there are zero reassuring words on winter, ventilation systems. Nothing. Not one mention today of "take masks off but keep ventilating, moving the air! Open a door, a window..

Lemonmelonsun · 05/07/2021 22:58

Wearing a mask is such a small thing to do in the crowded places

Thewinterofdiscontent · 05/07/2021 22:59

The expert on radio 4 was quite clear that even as a double vaccinated 60 year old he would be more likely to die than an unvaccinated 30 year old. The vast majority of deaths will be the double vaccinated soon ( jabbed but in at risk groups)

How long do we keep the 30 year olds restricted?

Tealightsandd · 05/07/2021 23:00

@Quartz2208

The 12-15 isn’t a government decision though it is currently with the jcvi an independent body made up of scientists. They haven’t made a recommendation yet
The UK's problem is there isn't enough vaccine supply.

It needs to be mRNA (Pfizer or Moderna). AZ not licenced for children, but also it seems to be less effective against the Delta variant. Recent studies showed AZ produces less antibodies than mRNA vaccines.

So the dilemma is who to vaccinate. mRNA boosters for the vulnerable, or children 12+.

You'd think though that there's enough to do CEV children in the meantime.

Attheendofthedaywhenallsaid · 05/07/2021 23:01

@Lemonmelonsun and no-one will stop you.

RedToothBrush · 05/07/2021 23:01

I dont think there was anything hidden in this I think it was clear that the Delta variant is such that suppressing it down to nothing is next to impossible given where we are. So it has become a choice as to when we have this wave. We have held off to get as many double vaccinated and single vaccinated as we can. And the summer is a much better time to do it rather than winter

This.

Delta changed everything.

Other governments are slowly waking up to this.

Personally i think I'd rather be in the UK that a few other places right now, especially if i were clinical vulnerable EVEN WITH more cases and less restrictions for a whole host of reasons.

Winter may be grim here. But its summer and theres still autumn to go. And we are on the brink of the point others would open up at but aren't yet at.

Zandathepanda · 05/07/2021 23:01

Btw 16-18 cv and cev children have already been guinea pigs for the vaccine as many, like my 16 year old, have been done already.

MarshaBradyo · 05/07/2021 23:02

I don’t think it’s temporary but we will see rising hospitalisation until it peaks

Should be under capacity but still, it’s not going to be downwards yet

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