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Covid

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Did it seem a bit odd that the tone of today's announcement was so sombre?

595 replies

secretintrovert · 05/07/2021 21:52

Bojo should have been doing his victory dance for freedom day! Instead the three of them looked as miserable as sin. There's trouble afoot methinks. This will be very very temporary

OP posts:
AlmostSummer21 · 07/07/2021 19:47

@floatingboater

Those of you thinking he's being reckless, what do you expect/want to happen? The economy is down the shitter, businesses have crumbled, widespread mental health issues...we have the vaccine now, there is nothing else that can be done.
Of course there is FFS
user1465822474 · 07/07/2021 19:49

I think that the shoulder of responsibility is being put onto the public along with other health related policies such as shared decision making in clinical care. Example. DH had raging tonsillitis not identified at a previous visit to GP but googled it and went back. GP: Oh yes you have severe tonsillitis. Would you like me to prescribe antibiotics? DH: well you're the doctor!
So Boris is the GP and we're supposed to decide for ourselves based on , what? social media pressure, science, tabloid press? In the absence of any firm guidance we're basing decisions on all kinds of sources of information, not all of them reliable. Same as having to google your symptoms.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 07/07/2021 20:17

@Owl55

Somber because it’s an economic decision and furlow will stop , refundancies will happen and variables increase ,meanwhile my fear is the NHS is being quietly dismantled , difficulty seeing a doctor in person ,operations cancelled and getting an appointment with a dentist impossible for some! Suddenly we will be told the government have drafted in the private sector to clear the backlog and that is how the NHS will be eroded😢. Maybe I’m wrong , I hope so but it’s a real concern of mine.
This is exactly what I can see happening, too.

It is deliberate and calculated - they can't wait to sell off the profitable parts of the NHS.

We have to fight and fight to prevent this - but for the life of me, I don't now what we can do. I wouldn't know where to start.

herecomesthsun · 07/07/2021 20:26

Actually I think behaving sensibly is a good way forward.

Listening to the scientists. Wearing a mask in crowded, indoor places. Being cautious. Holidaying yes, but maybe not on the continent this year.

And not voting Conservative if we want to save the NHS.

I haven't voted either Conservative or Labour for a while. I vote for the best option of Lib Dems or Greens usually. We need another choice or choices.

Dustyboots · 07/07/2021 20:28

Well from 19th we’re free to go out protesting aren’t we? So long as we don’t shout too loud because since yesterday we can be arrested for that. Lovely.

maybloss2 · 07/07/2021 21:30

one thing I’ve learnt since covid is that ‘ common’ sense does not exist. There is no consensus on what’s appropriate in any situation. Otherwise sensible and caring people have decided they don’t care about the ‘good of all’.
People I thought I knew, have completely different notions about what makes a safe approach.
Now, I don’t know how to approach the future!
Ive a pregnant daughter who isn’t vaccinated, that’s made it obvious one still needs to think about others safety..
For me, I’m now the older generation in my family but still am only 63 and I’ve had some chronic health issues that have made me realise I’m more afraid of getting long covid, than actually dying from it. I live with two teenagers and that’s really hard to manage as they just don’t keep to distancing and socialising rules.
What to do other than be a hermit?

duffeldaisy · 07/07/2021 21:30

@Dustyboots That bill still has to go through the House of Lords. It's not law yet, and I'm hoping they're sensible enough to reject it without some serious amendments.

I know it keeps being said that we 'have to live with this'. We don't. We have a choice. There are tried and tested ways of getting the numbers right back down and in living properly freely again.
Our government is choosing not to do anything, in fact worse than that, it's removing the few things we do have in place, while numbers are rising.

Three children have died in the last two days, and lots of people in their 30s, 40s, 50s. It's not all frail, extremely elderly people. When it was the very ill and elderly there was no excuse not to use every resource to try to help them, and now there is no excuse. It's outrageous and inhumane. Please don't let this become normalised because it's not.

Isthistherealthing · 07/07/2021 21:33

@Attheendofthedaywhenallsaid Yes totally agree! Covid is here to stay and we must manage that, hopefully without creating additional plastic waste. It’s a huge, scary issue that’s affected everyone to some extent though and climate change remains a remote possibility in a lot of people’s minds. Not a day goes past that I don’t worry about what we’re doing to our planet but feel so helpless to do anything meaningful about it. It’s a huge, huge crisis and I dread to think what it will mean for us, and particularly our children and their offspring…Actually makes me cry just thinking about it 😢

PrincessNutNuts · 07/07/2021 22:44

If case rates of 2000 per 100,000 per week are replicated across whole cities we won't be able to "live with covid" though will we?

The sheer numbers will be overwhelming.

Peppallama · 07/07/2021 22:51

@PrincessNutNuts

If case rates of 2000 per 100,000 per week are replicated across whole cities we won't be able to "live with covid" though will we?

The sheer numbers will be overwhelming.

Surely that depends on who the cases are. If they're young and generally fit people then it won't be an issue.
Quartz2208 · 07/07/2021 23:01

Wont it reach a saturation point though? Exponential growth cannot continue forever!

PrincessNutNuts · 07/07/2021 23:04

@Quartz2208

Wont it reach a saturation point though? Exponential growth cannot continue forever!
Yes.

But when?

PrincessNutNuts · 07/07/2021 23:08

Surely that depends on who the cases are. If they're young and generally fit people then it won't be an issue.

How many lorry drivers teachers, doctors, nurses, police officers nuclear power workers etc can our economy survive without?

AnTeallach · 07/07/2021 23:09

But it IS an issue.
I was fit and healthy til I had a mild dose of Covid in April 2020. Then I got long Covid and, among other things, pneumonia and a heart issue that had me blue-lighted to hospital. I'm currently on a phased return back to work after a 6 month absence. And I'm one of the luckier ones. I cannot believe how short-sighted and reckless Johnson's actions are. And stopping free lateral flow tests at the same time is utter madness.

Domino20 · 07/07/2021 23:12

Given that there's such a desperate shortage of lorry drivers (brexit) that there are now new rules allowing them to drive for longer (dangerous), we definitely can't afford to lose any more.

Wakeupin2022 · 07/07/2021 23:15

Don't be silly. A three-week lockdown to contain a cluster of cases that are spotfiring in one major city (that could of course be left to grow out of control, but it isn't), vs the dire situation of 28,000 plus cases daily in the UK, which are soon to be fanned into 100,000 a day it has been admitted.

Every country has made mistakes. But who is in 'a dangerous situation', really?

This is a prime example of not really understanding things.

Yes we have more cases than Australia but we do not have a constant battle to stop Covid coming into the country.

Yes we have a ridiculous death rate and our NHS has almost been overwhelmed on so many occasions - but we also have a lot more immunity that Austrailia.

I am sure that we will fare worse overall than Austrailia at the end of all this, but we are moving into a phase of the pandemic when it is then who are going to have to make the really hard decisions. Are regular lockdowns, even if only a few days feasible? Some day they are going to have to open up their borders.

BirdsandBeesmakinghay · 07/07/2021 23:22

@Owl55

Somber because it’s an economic decision and furlow will stop , refundancies will happen and variables increase ,meanwhile my fear is the NHS is being quietly dismantled , difficulty seeing a doctor in person ,operations cancelled and getting an appointment with a dentist impossible for some! Suddenly we will be told the government have drafted in the private sector to clear the backlog and that is how the NHS will be eroded😢. Maybe I’m wrong , I hope so but it’s a real concern of mine.
I can see that this is exactly what will happen.
Tealightsandd · 07/07/2021 23:25

@Domino20

Given that there's such a desperate shortage of lorry drivers (brexit) that there are now new rules allowing them to drive for longer (dangerous), we definitely can't afford to lose any more.
We could of course try giving drivers a better wage and working conditions...

DP knows someone who used to work as an HGV driver. They had to leave in the end. Employers were cutting wages, worsening conditions (and replacing long-standing drivers with cheaper more easily exploited labour from the EU, if they complained). It became too difficult to make a living. Wages have gone down at the same time as rents and household bills going up.

Pay enough and you get the staff - wherever they're from, UK or EU.

JulesTC · 07/07/2021 23:33

And when it all goes tuts up - we now have only ourselves to blame because the government of England has absolved itself. How very con for them and their chums.
It hasn’t escaped my notice that more work has been passed over to “NHS” Test and Trace, so another lot of obfuscation coming from that overfunded quango too

Tealightsandd · 07/07/2021 23:34

Some day they are going to have to open up their borders

Yes. But it doesn't have to be to everywhere. Not straight away. We're not so special, us Brits, that everywhere desperately needs or misses us. They'll open up gradually - with high risk countries like the UK at the back of the queue.

but we also have a lot more immunity that Austrailia.

We do not know yet how long immunity (natural or vaccine induced) lasts for.

We do know that people can get Covid more than once. Particularly new strains.

What we do have a lot more of than Australia is death and long term disability (Long Covid).

My family in Australia (and NZ) have had a largely normal year. Including mostly undisrupted schooling. Two in Australia (early 40s) are already double Pfizer jabbed.

Our economy is battered, and we have Long Covid to pay for the foreseeable future. Australia and New Zealand economies are booming.

Tealightsandd · 07/07/2021 23:37

@JulesTC

And when it all goes tuts up - we now have only ourselves to blame because the government of England has absolved itself. How very con for them and their chums. It hasn’t escaped my notice that more work has been passed over to “NHS” Test and Trace, so another lot of obfuscation coming from that overfunded quango too
Nope.

The CEO gets a boss's wage for being in charge, for having the ultimate responsibility.

We pay Boris and co. to do that job - CEO of the UK. If he wants to abdicate responsibility, he can give up his wage as he's not doing the job he's paid to do.

The buck stops with those in charge.

Dustyboots · 07/07/2021 23:40

Three children have died in the last two days, and lots of people in their 30s, 40s, 50s.

Where did you get this information from @duffeldaisy?

theemperorhasnoclothes · 07/07/2021 23:59

www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-06/children-need-covid-protection-vaccines-experts-say/100269228

Look at the difference in attitude towards children catching covid in this article from Australia and here.

Children will die - if infection levels get high enough, of course they will. A tiny percentage of a massive number is still a big number. Basic maths. And it's preventable.

All the mitigations mentioned in that article aren't being done in UK schools. It's unbelievable what we're doing.

Remember in the first wave and the second when the government were saying 'schools are safe', 'children don't catch it', 'children don't transmit it'.

Now they're basically saying 'we know they catch and transmit it and we're going to let them get it'. Why are parents putting up with this shit?

MercyBooth · 08/07/2021 00:00

"The government cannot wrap everyone up in cotton wool and protect them from an airborne virus indefinitely.

Those most at risk of LC have been offered vaccination.

Those who are younger or at school may still be vulnerable but I have to say, to an extent its just life - and the government has no choice but to prioritise higher risk groups and acknowledge risk from other health conditions.

Very few people will die in their beds of old age, otherwise fit and healthy.

I genuinely think there are limitations to what the state can do.

Its a lottery as to what we are at higher risk from - some of it genetics and some of it socio-economic.

Given the nature of how more socially deprived communities have more under lying health issues directly related to poverty, I'd argue that restrictions are compounding health vulnerabilities of this group anyway and they now, largely have protections from the vaccine. Indeed we know the link between health risks and socio-economic issues and that this relates not just to covid but other conditions. We cannot separate the two things out. They are long term chronic issues that cannot be resolved overnight in the midst of a pandemic.

They are the result of decades of unresolved social issues by multiple governments and local authorities under different parties.

Long term this is where government intervention can improve things, but not in a crisis situation where efforts, resources and money are focused on maintaining restrictions.

Far from being unsympathetic to these issues, im very much of the mindset that they need addressing.

I think i see the only routes to resolution involving seeing the big picture and the many facets of it though. That does mean stopping this thing of only seeing covid and dealing with what has become unrealistic public expectations / disproportionate anxiety resulting from an inability to process and contextualise risk and balance with other competing issues.

This isnt easy. We have conditioned ourselves and been conditioned by government. A certain section of the population are always resistant to change and the change back to normality will be harder for some than others.

Our lifestyles have all been affected in one way or another. And some of these habits aren't good ones.

When i see posting with emotive language and the blinkers on, it does set off certain alarm bells and where someone is at with things.

Theres definitely posters who are struggling with context, risk assessment and don't understand evidence based medicine principles atm. Nor do they fully understand human behaviour in a liberal society and the limitations this places on governing in a crisis situation.

To put it another way, we are running out of options and running out of time and anything we do at this point is a gamble based on probability as we cannot see the future. Undoubtedly we will continue to make mistakes as a result and those with hindsight will remind everyone of those mistakes in due course.

At some point we will have to make a leap of faith whatever we do. Thats the trouble"

Brilliant post @RedToothBrush

MarshaBradyo · 08/07/2021 00:01

It’s difficult just on a vaccine thread some posters say parents are insane to use it for children

I’m not invested as outside age consideration but I see such strong posts either side for vaccine and children, I assume 12 plus in that article