Thoughts on the non-vaccinated!

[UnluckyMe]

Why have people been so critical of those who have chosen not to be vaccinated against covid 19?

I've read all sorts of comments about those, like me, who chose not to be vaccinated calling us selfish, uneducated and so on. There seems to be a massive lack of respect for what others choose to do with their body and I'm just curious as go why people feel the need to make comments about it. There are obviously many who don't and I do acknowledge that, my post is more directed to thoughts on why the other side do (feels very playground bully like to me).

The way I see it is everyone has a choice - respect that choice and move on with life rather than throwing insults at one another or dwell on something out of your own control.

I'd also like to confirm i do not own tin foil hat, expect the end of days soon or believe everyone will drop dead in 6 months / will transform into magneto from X-Men (all those coins sticking to people's arms!)

I have followed the rules down to a tee but have just chosen not to be vaccinated at present. Maybe I will change my mind, maybe I won't 🤷‍♀️ who knows.

I am genuinely curious - I read on another post "all vulnerable and sensible people have had the jab" as a comment which riled me a bit too! I like to think I'm pretty sensible but clearly this Mumsnetter thinks otherwise 😆😆

While we're talking about risk-benefit analysis

www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2021.26.26.2100533

"using Vaxzevria in the entire adult population would avert four (95% PI: 2–7) COVID-19 deaths in the 18–29 year-olds and six (95% PI: 3–8) in the 30–39 year-olds, but it would be associated with 12 (95% PI: 7–19) and nine (95% PI: 6–14) deaths from TTS in these age groups, respectively."

"We found that, for individuals 55 years and older, the benefits of distributing Vaxzevria largely outweighed the risks in a range of possible scenarios. In contrast, in young adults, the risks were similar or higher than the benefits. "

@Lostinacloud

Ha there you are ollyollyoxenfree. Always stalking around threads daring to discuss alternative views so you can call them out as ragtag organisations because they don’t concur to the mainstream media led information. Why is any scientific explanation that doesn’t concur with the WHO, Sage or Fauci ragtag? And on the subject of the linked article, why on earth would millennia old immunity follow any different pattern to sars-cov2 than it does to other coronaviruses. It seem ludicrous to suggest that immunity to sars-cov1 can be counted at 17 years so far, but apparently immunity to sars-cov2 will wane within 6-12 months.

oh my goodness @Lostinacloud

As I have said multiple times, the issue isn't when someone disagrees with mainstream views, it's when these views aren't backed by robust science, which is often the case with groups like this.

As a non-expert, surely you can understand the rationale that if 1000s of experts converge around a viewpoint, and a couple disagree, it is indicative that the majority viewpoint is probably correct.

Why is any scientific explanation that doesn’t concur with the WHO, Sage or Fauci ragtag?
Not what I said in the slightest - I have referred to "Panda" as ragtag because it's composed of non-experts making claims not based on robust science, with a history of spreading misinformation. They haven't got a single epidemiologist or virologist with a strong publication history in a relevant field within their group. Added to that is that they are peddling misinformation such as "There is also science suggesting that extended periods of mask wearing can be harmful due to oxygen deprivation and various other side-effects"

Leaving your partner because they choose to protect themselves? Maybe there are similar amounts of fear-inducing anti-vax stories doing the rounds. I haven't seen it, but I guess it's possible

Well I would say it is possible. An anti vax relative genuinely believes all the vaccinated will be dead in 2 to 3 years tops. Yeadon or Cahill said it apparently.
He also believe the old were given AZ to kill the low hanging fruit off before they become a burden and the stronger one pfizer to track them. I kid you not.

Catching up - loads of messages - I don’t think we can assume there are no long term effects just because something doesn’t hang around. And I don’t think we do now that either the nano or the spike protein does simply go completely.

I just don’t feel reassured by the reports.

And for the billionth time I don’t take the pill and they are different clots. Yawn - can we move on from that now?

In terms of risk, I accept that. Funnily enough it’s why I choose to avoid most medication. I do some riskier sports but minimise risk. I like to assess risk myself. I don’t want to be told the risk of the vaccine is less than covid. I want to know why and how it’s been measured.

My risk from covid is tiny. My assessment of the benefit to me of the vaccine is that it’s a higher risk than covid.

Yes I care about community health and that’s weighing in me hugely. But after having CFS for a year and crawling my own way back, after mainstream medicine did bugger all, I have become rather selfish about my health as if it’s fucked, I’m on my own again

You have answered how you feel.

As someone who has been vaccinated which will help protect those like you that can but won't but more importantly help protect vulnerable people that cannot have the vaccine, I say why won't you help out? Why don't you think it's important to protect those that cannot have the vaccine? Why are you so keen not to help others @UnluckyMe

I’m sorry but @shrodingersbiscuit is not only highly qualified, she just sounds like a decent, helpful and considerate person!

Why the HELL are people choosing to believe myths over fact??

Actually I appreciate the links schrodinger and am going to read tonight properly when I have the time.

This is absolutely not my area of expertise and I’m actually keen to have a vaccine if I fully understand the risks. And at present I do not. I will never trust “authority” again. I don’t do what I’m told to do by experts as I generally disbelieve most of them - they either have another agenda or haven’t seen a bigger picture. I appreciate this makes me sound arrogant but I have arrived here after several instances of things going wrong in my life leading me to shake my head in disbelief at the stupidity of people I perceive to be far more intelligent than I am.

Thus the MHRA has lost my respect already in missing the clotting issue so obviously. As a result I don’t trust anything they say and I think the yellow card system overall is a load of shite, to put it mildly

@Roonerspismedi I applaud you for saying - this is not my area of expertise.

It is not mine either.

[quote shrodingersbiscuit]@bumbleymummy

Once again, we are not only talking about your individual risk of death.

If you are so brilliantly well read and an expert in risk analysis you’ll have spotted the obvious with that paper - it’s not as straightforward as you are claiming.

Figure 3

The number of COVID-19 ICU admissions averted with the use of Vaxzevria remained larger than ICU admissions for Vaxzevria-related TTS, in all age groups and all strategies of use for Vaxzevria. This is explained because in younger age groups, the risk of ICU admission following infection is higher than the risk of death following infection.[/quote]
Yes, I did. But seeing as we were talking about risk of dying previously, I stuck to that. :)

I am talking about individual risk of death. I explained why my reasons for not taking the vaccine are not related to fear of the vaccine or anti-vaxx propaganda. As I said, you keep trying to change that into me saying something different but I’m simply talking about my reasons for not being vaccinated, nothing more. Hth.

Think the big problem is government v’s the science.

The government got it wrong because they did not listen to the science.

And this has led to a distrust in science.

@bumbleymummy do you recognise that your thought process here is utterly frustrating for those who see the value in altruism?

@shrodingersbiscuit Covid has highlighted to me - the link between politics, the government in charge of a society - and - behaviourally, the countries worldwide that have had the best response to Covid. Early lockdown and border control appear to be a key factor - along with a compliant and altruistic society.

- people think that the government or pharmaceutical scientists would never lie or have non health related motives and yet this was only 11 years ago. Maybe this is round 2 and it has worked this time? There are certainly questions around the reasons for death have been reported and the efficacy of pcr tests.

Link is a channel 4 report about how swine flu was misrepresented to governments and health bodies by pharmaceutical companies.

@Lostinacloud I read about this. Apparently the initial risk posed by Swine Flu was huge. However it didn’t turn out this way. However Covid risk was huge, and continues to be huge.

I think the problem is that science is pedantic, careful and focusses on the look before you leap/worst case scenario. Because it HAS to. It is dealing with life or death.

I would never want science to be slap/dash in order to appease voters.

[quote shrodingersbiscuit]@UndercoverToad couldn’t have put it better myself! Also I think some scientists fail us all with their, frankly, arrogance. If you can’t explain your science to a layman - you’re failing as a scientist.[/quote]
Ha! Are you seriously that blind to just how arrogant you have come across on this thread?

@bumbleymummy no, not arrogance. I think gone out of their way to carefully explain - but I think you object to your understanding being questioned.

Not at all. She just doesn’t like that I’ve made my decision based on evaluating evidence Irt personal risk so is trying to make out that I’m afraid/uneducated blah blah. Which just isn’t the case, no matter how much she wants it to be.

@bumbleymummy you are not that - you are a questioning, creative thinker. This serves you very well in your everyday life - BUT - when faced with an unprecedented pandemic - isn’t it best to listen to the best medical advice worldwide?

Ummm… you don’t know me in RL.

But sure, most scientists agree that someone my age/ethnicity etc is low risk. I’m happy to take that risk, which is a personal decision, just like the many other personal decisions that people make irt their health every day.

Also, you’ll find that medical advice differs across the world irt the vaccines - some restricting AZ for certain age groups, some vaccinating over 12s etc.