Thoughts on the non-vaccinated!

[UnluckyMe]

Why have people been so critical of those who have chosen not to be vaccinated against covid 19?

I've read all sorts of comments about those, like me, who chose not to be vaccinated calling us selfish, uneducated and so on. There seems to be a massive lack of respect for what others choose to do with their body and I'm just curious as go why people feel the need to make comments about it. There are obviously many who don't and I do acknowledge that, my post is more directed to thoughts on why the other side do (feels very playground bully like to me).

The way I see it is everyone has a choice - respect that choice and move on with life rather than throwing insults at one another or dwell on something out of your own control.

I'd also like to confirm i do not own tin foil hat, expect the end of days soon or believe everyone will drop dead in 6 months / will transform into magneto from X-Men (all those coins sticking to people's arms!)

I have followed the rules down to a tee but have just chosen not to be vaccinated at present. Maybe I will change my mind, maybe I won't 🤷‍♀️ who knows.

I am genuinely curious - I read on another post "all vulnerable and sensible people have had the jab" as a comment which riled me a bit too! I like to think I'm pretty sensible but clearly this Mumsnetter thinks otherwise 😆😆

And all the people who are talking about the vulnerable people in nursing homes. For years people have not given a shit about old people living in these homes.
Care workers work extremely hard and for shit wages and now everybody is condemning some people who have said they are uncomfortable with the vaccine. If your that concerned about your loved one them take them home and look after the yourself.
Care workers get treated appallingly and here in Australia it will be mandatory for them to get the jab.
They will lose even more staff in an already understaffed sector.

@ReallyReady111 the vaccine has been approved and it is standard procedure for safety monitoring to continue after vaccines have been approved for use.

@ReallyReady111 - but what I am fed up with is vaccine refusal because of pseudo science. And people promoting quackademics such as Laura Dodsworth.

It is under Emergency Use Authorisation. Just for accuracy it’s important to understand the difference. ‘Approval’ is a four step process. At stage four it’s subject to continued monitoring. This is stage three. It is only allowed to be rolled out population wide because of the EUA. There are no data in clinically vulnerable sub populations. I don’t know what you mean by ‘pseudoscience’. Everyone I’ve heard of who isn’t having it has underlying medical conditions for which the safety hasn’t been demonstrated, or is pregnant or breastfeeding (ditto untested).

I don’t know about Laura Dodsworth. I’ve only come across her on here. But it does seem to me that govt policy is overwhelmingly driven by behaviourists rather than scientists (who would never say they science is settled’ about anything, because any true scientist will tell you that scientific consensus is always provisional and contingent on emerging data. Those who are more risk averse - many for medical reasons- are within their rights to wait until more clinical data becomes available.)

@Fferny1

I'm perfectly fine with the non-vaccinated having the luxury of a choice. But I'm not happy with them being treated for Covid in Hospitals when they Inevitably get it and potentially infecting the staff and other immunosuppressed patients. So as long as they sign a waiver saying no further treatment will be forthcoming from the Nhs - then fine go ahead.

Vaccinated people end up in hospital and infect other people too. Thankfully your little dystopian nightmare is just in your head.

OP,

I wont beat around the bush. I find your position disgusting, selfish and exploiting.

I wouldn't have a problem with your stand of making a decision for your body and health if you were living in isolation and that decision didn't affect others. But you don't. You live in a society and mix with other people. You go to the shops, your children go to school, you go to doctors and hospitals when necessary. You also mix with people when you go to a restaurant, a cafe.....You are not living on your own.

A pandemic is an issue of public health. It means the rights of the country (health and safety) trumps over individual rights. There is a reason why you can't drive while drunk, it's called public safety. You, as an individual, have as much right to drink as much as you want to. But not when you are driving and putting other drivers at risk.

It's truly not important if you catch Covid by not getting vaccinated. What is important is that you will transmit the virus to someone who can't have the vaccine by medical reasons - the disabled, the elderly and those with chronic conditions for which the vaccine is not possible. You are exploiting the fact that most of the country will get vaccinated and will minimise the risk of you getting the virus. I find it obscene.

If you really want your individual rights to trump public health and safety, isolate for life. Your position then will be consequent with your choice and for the majority of people to maintain their right to health and safety.

@ReallyReady111 my understanding is that - it’s just not even possible for the vaccine to have passed stage 4. That stage comes after several years of monitoring after it’s large scale roll out. And so far - of the many, many millions that have been vaccinated worldwide - the side effects are far, far, far less risky than the risk from Covid.
Where is the source for Emergency Use Authorisation?

I fully agree that the government should be driven by science and that it is a state of flux. And people can only go with what the very best, peer researched and worldwide consensus of opinion is now.

@Hornbill123456789

Alondra
It's truly not important if you catch Covid by not getting vaccinated. What is important is that you will transmit the virus to someone who can't have the vaccine by medical reasons - the disabled, the elderly and those with chronic conditions for which the vaccine is not possible. You are exploiting the fact that most of the country will get vaccinated and will minimise the risk of you getting the virus. I find it obscene.^

You know that these people who have medical reasons have been living in the community and are exposed to loads of viruses that currently circulate in the community. Most of these people are aware of their limitations.
Suddenly everybody cares about each other.
But its okay for you to find someone's opinion obscene and disgusting.

The current stats very clearly show that the vaccine, although not reducing our COVID numbers, are reducing the severity of the illness and reducing the number of people needing hospital care. Thus the people who have had the vaccine are doing there bit to help us get back to some normality.

Thus if there is no medical, physical or mental health reason for not getting your vaccine, your basically a selfish fuck.

@Aldilogue

Alondra It's truly not important if you catch Covid by not getting vaccinated. What is important is that you will transmit the virus to someone who can't have the vaccine by medical reasons - the disabled, the elderly and those with chronic conditions for which the vaccine is not possible. You are exploiting the fact that most of the country will get vaccinated and will minimise the risk of you getting the virus. I find it obscene.^

You know that these people who have medical reasons have been living in the community and are exposed to loads of viruses that currently circulate in the community. Most of these people are aware of their limitations.
Suddenly everybody cares about each other.
But its okay for you to find someone's opinion obscene and disgusting.

These people as you call them have a right to live. And they've been living and protected in the community from many serious virus thanks to the vaccination programs all of us had since birth. We are not suddenly caring for "these people". It's a social reality that until now, with a pandemic, many have never thought about.

We are in a pandemic. It may be time some of you think about your social responsibilities. If it was up to me, a healthy person who refuse a vaccine without medical reasons, will have their rights to mix socially severely curtailed.

How old is that @ReallyReady111 because my understanding is that phase 3 has been completed for Pfizer?

@EmergencyHydrangea

No one has to respect your choice, they have to respect your right to make a choice. There's a difference

This sums it up perfectly for me. I am double jabbed, my personal reasons for taking vaccine comes down to:

1, I didn't want to get covid and end up with long covid (not so worried about dying as in early 40's and relatively healthy), I run a small business and if I am out of it for a long time that doesn't just impact on my income it would impact on 15 other people and their ability to keep their wages.
2, I have a grandson with disabilities (not CV) he is 18mnths and we help a lot with his care - if I am ill then I can not do this and my DSD would really struggle.
3, I wanted to ensure I could see my family without fear that I may be the one who would kill them (both my Dad and Adult niece CEV).
4, DH works in care home.
5, DSS not old enough to get jabbed until next year but goes college and to footie with same ages group who also can't be jabbed so coming home from higher risk enviroments.

My DSD is an anti- vaccer (funny enough only for covid) she is up in arms at people being annoyed with her about it and she was genuinely really worried that I was making the wrong choice in having it.

I explained my reason, I have explained that sometimes in society we have to make choices that have a greater impact on society as a whole and that her refusal means that someone who CAN'T have it is having their choices limited because of those who won't have it.

I have also explained that whilst I have to respect her choice to have that choice I don't agree with the outcome and others will not also. She believe that the government are manipulating and forcing people to take it. I again explained that this is not a new thing, that in USA kids can't go to school unless they have had the measles jab.

I think her age, the fact they don't watch any news or tv that isn't streamed on netflix etc and the reliance that what they see on social media as well as the general mistrust of government because they keep getting caught breaking their own rules has made it easier for people to buy into the mistrust of vaccines and they don't belive the scientist aren't all on the government payroll either.

The single most worrying thing I find is that these are the people that will allow a mutation to arrive that is vaccine avoiding and then they will say - see told you so.

It doesn't matter what logic I throw at her it is met with resistance.

I struggle because they can not explain a reason why they don't want the vaccine that isn't some load of rubbish that ultimately still comes down to its a personal choice and bollocks to society as a whole.

@slightlysnippy And interestingly the population that cases are skyrocketing in, and hospital admissions also increasing from what I can gather on this board- the under 18s. Interesting isn’t it. It’s almost like by experimentally mass vaccinating a healthy population in the middle of a pandemic (rather than giving our share of the vaccines to the old and CEV in other countries once our populations of CEV were protected) we have CAUSED the vaccine to attack the only section of the population that remains unvaccinated. Ie children. Since the beginning of the pandemic the one thing that all the medical professionals have been in agreement with was that Covid didn’t badly affect kids (not only hospitalisations and deaths, but actually catching it.) But now, but pursuing this selfish global strategy of vaccinating 100% of our adult population (and to hell with the rest of the world), you watch as the virus mutates to attack children more virulently. I predict by the autumn the situation will be dire enough for the govt to advise vaccinating all children too (with unknown risks.) This wasn’t inevitable. We have caused it by experimenting with this vaccine on a non vulnerable population. That to me is selfish.

@BounceyBumblebee

Herd mentality. Covid fear has become like a religion to some. Not following the narrative, and going against the grain, is like blasphemy to them.

Just ignore them. Keep quite, once the majority have been vaccinated the gov will end the propaganda and it'll all be forgotten.

To translate once everyone else has had the vaccine and done their bit to help US get our lives back to normal, our selfish attitude will be much easier to hide.

It's like the football fan on the news who travelled to England to watch the game, and him and his fellow travellers caught COVID and significantly increased our Scottish COViID numbers, at the end of his segment he said does 'it was worth it'. Next segment poor chap who owns a children's soft play centre, who was £200,000 +'in debt because he still wasn't allowed to open after a year, wonder if he thought the football was worth it??

Actually I’m not going to get into this anymore, because it is just so blatantly obvious that the best medical advice is to get the vaccine unless you are told by a GP not to.
I’m with you @slightlysnippy.
Too many people think they know better than the most respected scientists worldwide. I’ve lost patience.

@Xenobitch the vaccinated who end up in hospital have done their bit. The ones who are vaccine refusers haven't ... and are relying on other people vaccinations to protect them from becoming ill.
It's not a dystopian nightmare ... this is reality . If there was no NHS and we all had to pay for our treatment you can bet these vaccine refusers would be first in line.

Can I hasten to add that Medical staff have absolutely no sympathy for the anti-vaxing brigade.

The ones who are vaccine refusers haven't ... and are relying on other people vaccinations to protect them from becoming ill.

Not necessarily - unvaccinated people, such as myself, may have had Covid already, and have protection against it. People seem to forget that. Most assume unvaccinated = no immunity against the virus.

I chose not to vaccinate because of my health issues and needle phobia.

@RockingMyFiftiesNot

More young people are being hospitalised with the new variant and are more susceptible to long covid.

There are proportionally more young people in hospital because there are fewer older people being hospitalised, due to vaccination. Their numbers are still low.

@CrunchyCarrot

The ones who are vaccine refusers haven't ... and are relying on other people vaccinations to protect them from becoming ill.

Not necessarily - unvaccinated people, such as myself, may have had Covid already, and have protection against it. People seem to forget that. Most assume unvaccinated = no immunity against the virus.

I chose not to vaccinate because of my health issues and needle phobia.

There's no evidence of lasting immunity to covid. In fact it seems you can get it repeatedly.

Your choice though.

@CrunchyCarrot I’ve also had it. And I agree no one is considering natural immunity and the fact that that has also massively contributed to the reduction in numbers of hospitalisations and deaths. It’s not just down to the vaccines. The latest data on reinfection is that even presumed (is unconfirmed) reinfection is in the region of 0.4%. And the number of confirmed reinfections (ie two sequenced PCR tests) since the start of the pandemic in the U.K. is 53.

Phase 3 of the trial includes safety monitoring for adverse events till 2023. That is the (perfectly standard) process whereby the side effects list that you see on all the medications people take are drawn up. Oh and incidentally for those who say ‘well any medication has side effects’ - I don’t take any of them either. I had my two children without even taking a paracetamol. And that’s not just for fun- it’s because with EDS, and a constellation of autoimmune issues, I’ve had weird one in a million side effects to every drug (including vaccines) I’ve ever had. It runs in my family too. My mother took a post cancer drug that was still in its safety monitoring phase. It gave her early onset Alzheimer’s (no one in her family of 12 children has had Alzheimer’s and no family history of it whatsoever.) The drug worked by stripping out all the oestrogen in her system (she had oestrogen responsive breast cancer.) One of the side effects has now turned out to be ‘memory loss’. Even her specialist has privately admitted that there is probably a connection between the two. Never reported though, as impossible to prove causation. Meanwhile every drug she has been put on to manage her now advanced (at 67) Alzheimers has resulted in a delightful array of side effects, from epileptic seizures to aggression. Every time the doctors shrug their shoulders, say ‘that’s weird’ and try another drug. Some people are just more sensitive to side effects. I’ve learned that the hard way. I desperately hope that none of you pontificating about the unvaxxed and how disgusted you are ever have to go through what my family has had to.

It is the right of other people, who will be affected by unvaccinated people, to think it’s a dick move.

If you don’t care that you’re more likely to pass it onto someone vulnerable (some of whom cannot be vaccinated) or that we may well have restrictions reintroduced because of too low a vaccination rate then that’s up to you, but please don’t shy away from the consequences of your choice. Your choice is yours to make, but you have no right shirking responsibility for the effect it could have on others.

Nailed it @SlipperyDippery People who choose not to become vaccinated are helping to allow the virus to spread, and as it spreads, it inevitably mutates (basic science).

No respect for this choice.

@ReallyReady111

www.pfizer.co.uk/pfizer-and-biontech-conclude-phase-3-study-covid-19-vaccine-candidate-meeting-all-primary-efficacy-endpoints

What am I missing???