Thoughts on the non-vaccinated!

[UnluckyMe]

Why have people been so critical of those who have chosen not to be vaccinated against covid 19?

I've read all sorts of comments about those, like me, who chose not to be vaccinated calling us selfish, uneducated and so on. There seems to be a massive lack of respect for what others choose to do with their body and I'm just curious as go why people feel the need to make comments about it. There are obviously many who don't and I do acknowledge that, my post is more directed to thoughts on why the other side do (feels very playground bully like to me).

The way I see it is everyone has a choice - respect that choice and move on with life rather than throwing insults at one another or dwell on something out of your own control.

I'd also like to confirm i do not own tin foil hat, expect the end of days soon or believe everyone will drop dead in 6 months / will transform into magneto from X-Men (all those coins sticking to people's arms!)

I have followed the rules down to a tee but have just chosen not to be vaccinated at present. Maybe I will change my mind, maybe I won't 🤷‍♀️ who knows.

I am genuinely curious - I read on another post "all vulnerable and sensible people have had the jab" as a comment which riled me a bit too! I like to think I'm pretty sensible but clearly this Mumsnetter thinks otherwise 😆😆

I had moderna.

First jab arm was so sore I felt as if I needed a sling for it and couldn't push a door open or lift my arm over my head for 3 days. Felt a achey all over and fatigued the first day.

2nd jab I woke up at 2am with flu like symptoms. Chills and shivering which gave way to a high temperature and I had aches and pains all over and a bad headache. Now 4 days later I'm thinking Im over it.

Lots of people I know felt very rough with it.

All that said I wouldn't refuse the vaccine even knowing it would do that

I have decided not to get the vaccine but I don't work or care for any vulnerable people
I still stick to all the guidelines and anyone I do meet up with knows I've not had the vaccine
My reason is I'm pregnant and after will be that I will be breastfeeding and there's not enough research to show any long term effects
I also believe the booster jabs will only be for the elderly and vulnerable so I won't qualify for this anyway
I am not anti vax by the way I've just weighed up my own pros and cons
I will also be isolating in the last few weeks of pregnancy before I go into hospital

@PurpleTrilby

Lauralou Yeah it's very selfish to unilaterally decide against jabs. It's fucking ridiculous to allow the virus any more purchase than it already has. Get jabbed or fuck off.

At least we'll know who to blame if we have a 4th wave of Covid.

If people had always had this attitude to vaccinations, we'd still have people dying of smallpox and polio (although there are still a few places in the world where polio is still a thing, albeit in very small numbers).

Ok...so this went on a bit more than expected.

A few comments I agree with, others not so much. I do believe there are people out there who have done it for the "greater good" as they seem to describe it but there are others who are claiming that then making comments like "I've had enough of lockdown and your selfish for not doing your part to protect me and my daughter" so a very me me me approach. And I don't dispute that, we all want the best for ourselves and our families but just own it instead of hiding behind the greater good concept. Most people have done it for themselves and not for the communities, let's face it.

It is a very divided subject - a few thinking they are morally above others in status (whatever makes you happy 😆) and others just accepting of doing whatever makes you happy and what works for you.

So thanks for the responses all, interesting to see people's views (and this wasn't a moan as I've been accused of that quite a bit in this thread for some reason ) that aside - Happy Monday and have a lovely week!

Green rubber - I think there will probably still be jabs if you want them after pregnancy. I presume there will be some other people like brits returning from living abroad and kids who have just turned 18 - even in 1 years’ time?

Because COVID 19 is dangerous to individuals and a society (I.e. puts the ability of the NHS to cope at risk) and so choosing not be be vaccinated without a good reason, meaning your personal health is such that a vaccine would be damaging to you, is selfish and ignorant. There is no good reason not to, if people didn’t get vaccinated we’d still have endemic polio, TB, measles, mumps etc- there have been flare ups of the last three of these over recent years and they are incredibly damaging.
If you are scared, say so and get some education. If not then you are being selfish as you’re expecting others to do all the work so life can go back to “normal” but aren’t willing to chip in to the single most important action to facilitate that and to protect the vulnerable, so own it.

For anyone who wants to jump on me I have an understanding of how vaccines work from a biological perspective and have looked into the mechanisms so do know what I’m talking about.

Most people have done it for themselves and not for the communities, let's face it.

It doesn’t matter one jot what people’s motivations were; it’s remains a fact that if you’re vaccinated, you’re contributing to herd immunity and thus your actions have the effect of protecting vulnerable people, whereas if you could be vaccinated and choose not to, you are compromising that and therefore putting people at risk. Doesn’t matter whether you’re vaccinated for selfish reasons or altruistic reasons. The consequence is the same. And the consequence of choosing not to get vaccinated is that you’re putting vulnerable people at risk.

It’s ok for me to judge you for that. It’s a selfish action. That’s a reasonable reason to be judgmental.

I feel the unvaccinated by choice are willing to reap the rewards of all the vaccinated-even-though-it-came-at- a- personal- risk. So I do respect 'my body my choice" but in return for the respect I do a little humility is needed.

@Keepingthingsinteresting

"if your scared say so and you will get some education"

That's one of the problems tho they don't know themselves yet only time will tell that's why people are weighing up their own pros and cons to the jab

@namenic
I breastfed first time around for 2 and a half year so maybe by then I will have changed my mind
It will be a while before I even think of getting it tho

@PrettyVacancy

I think you are ill informed and selfishly benefiting from the sacrifices of others. You think you are some sort of amazing researcher. Sadly, you’re deluded 🙄

I'm not a researcher and I never claimed to be. I was just interested in seeing other people's viewpoint for my own interest. No one asked you to input if you didn't want to, its not a collective research project it was sheer curiosity.

Like it or lump it, people will do things YOU don't like. People will disagree with MY CHOICES. The same way that they may disagree with my approach to parenting, living life, religion, diet and exercise. Frankly, what you think is really your own opinion and has no bearing on my life.

So the only delusion here is your comment about me benefitting from you being vaccinated (if you indeed are). I have had covid twice, my body is fighting it the way it should naturally. The same way it fights infections and I don't have antibiotics. The same way I manage a headache instead of popping paracetamol.

Further to the above, you have no idea where I get my information from to call me "ill informed". You have not met me and I have not disclosed anything on here. So perhaps don't jump to conclusions and paint everyone with the same brush of conspiracy theorist / anyi-vaxxer. People like you are the reason there are massive divides in communities because you're quick to judge and make assumptions on character without having a clue yourself.

I had the vaccine as I don't want to get covid myself and also to stop the spread among the population so that life can return to normal.

So for 2 reasons personal and community.

The people who don't want it just seem to say they don't.

"And I don't dispute that, we all want the best for ourselves and our families but just own it instead of hiding behind the greater good concept. Most people have done it for themselves and not for the communities, let's face it."

I dont think thats true, if everyone just cared about themselves youd only get elderly or vulnerable people taking it. I got it because I think the more people that do, the better. There is less chance for mutations of the virus and more lockdowns etc. I'd already had covid and wasnt that ill and dont have contact with any vulnerable people. So the personal benefit of me having the vaccine was fairly low. I know lots of people that are the same.

I agree with right to choose but it is frustrating because it does not only effect the people who chose not to vaccinate.

The kids are not able to be vaccinated and they are constantly having their lives disrupted by having to isolate. If the adults are all vaccinated it gives them a greater chance of not catching covid. If one parent in a class is not vaccinated and passes it on to their child that affects hundreds of other people.

Two words Herd immunity

No vaccination is 100%, therefore we rely on a critical mass of the population to have any given vaccine to suppress diseases getting into general circulation. Not everyone can be vaccinated, for some despite vaccination they do not produce antibodies, then in the case of covid, children aren't vaccinated - we kind of need everyone else otherwise rolling lockdowns will be our new normal.

Each disease has a different percentage at which herd immunity is reached. It's a public health issue basically - my rights are going to be infringed because others won't have the jab, whose rights are more important???

I agree with you OP. I have had the jab in order to not be tested constantly at work and not to have to wear a mask in the office, but I didn’t really want it (and it made me feel pretty ill for a couple of days).

No one has the right to say what others should put into their bodies - I feel very strongly about that. The way people have been shunned or made to feel stupid for not having it is appalling. I find this societal trend which has emerged in the last few years of ostracising people who don’t agree with you to be really nasty and, quite frankly, scary.

@Gladiolys

Most people have done it for themselves and not for the communities, let's face it.

It doesn’t matter one jot what people’s motivations were; it’s remains a fact that if you’re vaccinated, you’re contributing to herd immunity and thus your actions have the effect of protecting vulnerable people, whereas if you could be vaccinated and choose not to, you are compromising that and therefore putting people at risk. Doesn’t matter whether you’re vaccinated for selfish reasons or altruistic reasons. The consequence is the same. And the consequence of choosing not to get vaccinated is that you’re putting vulnerable people at risk.

It’s ok for me to judge you for that. It’s a selfish action. That’s a reasonable reason to be judgmental.

My point wasn't about the reason for being vaccinated. My comment was in relation to those who scream selfish at those who have chosen not to vaccinate for their own reasons (be it general anxiety, health, pregnancy plans, beliefs in the jab etc etc). They have done it for them and purely themselves and have jumped on this bandwagon of feeling heroic because they have done their part for society when they really did it to save themselves.

The thing that gets me, whilst their screaming their lungs out is that those same people are still able to catch covid and pass it on. So having the jab has no effect on infection and transmission. You'll still be a carrier, you can still test positive you are just likely to suffer less than someone who hasn't had the jab.

As someone who has had covid twice now, I've not been protected by the people who have had the vaccine. So ramming that down my throat isn't something I deem as relevant. You manage your own life and risk assessment, not through propaganda and lectures from strangers

How have we got to this point in the pandemic and there are still people who havent realised it's not about 'me'? So yes, unless medical reasons it's very very selfish.

I have had covid twice, my body is fighting it the way it should naturally.

And who cares about the people you might pass it on to who can’t fight it naturally, who will end up on ventilators or who will die. Fuck those losers, eh. Should have had better immune systems if they wanted to live.

@DrinkFeckArseBrick

"And I don't dispute that, we all want the best for ourselves and our families but just own it instead of hiding behind the greater good concept. Most people have done it for themselves and not for the communities, let's face it."

I dont think thats true, if everyone just cared about themselves youd only get elderly or vulnerable people taking it. I got it because I think the more people that do, the better. There is less chance for mutations of the virus and more lockdowns etc. I'd already had covid and wasnt that ill and dont have contact with any vulnerable people. So the personal benefit of me having the vaccine was fairly low. I know lots of people that are the same.

That's fair enough to you. I said most people, not all.

Someone up thread mentioned that people are getting covid after being vaccinated - there is a big difference between testing positive post vaccine (the virus can still reach your throat hang around for a day or two before the immune system getting rid of it) and serious illnesses requiring admission to hospital

The vaccine DOES reduce transmission: www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56904993.amp

You can still catch covid after 2 vaccines yes, but the effects of it will be far less. You won't suffer severe illness.

This about more than a vaccine: who is honestly proud of themselves for not taking antibiotics and pain killers whilst ill?!

It's a matter for you but I don't understand that you're proud of it and wish to declare it. What are you getting out of it?

Crack on but I trust you would have blind faith in your body not to need chemotherapy or life saving surgery too?

I don’t care if people want to be vaccinated or not.

Once everyone has been double vaccinated who wants to be. It’s business as usual. If the unvaccinated want a large dollop of Delta, that’s on them.

And once the hospitals start filling up and the doctors have to choose between putting an unlucky fully vaccinated person on a ventilator or a unvaccinated person on one, I hope they make the right choice.

@Gladiolys

I have had covid twice, my body is fighting it the way it should naturally.

And who cares about the people you might pass it on to who can’t fight it naturally, who will end up on ventilators or who will die. Fuck those losers, eh. Should have had better immune systems if they wanted to live.

Yep, that is totally my attitude - To hell with them all 🙄

You know how anti-vaxxers are painted with this brush of being conspiracy theorists etc. You scream angry pro-vaxxer. I will run all my life decisions through you from now on. Look out for my emails.

Erm OP, the vaccines have been found to reduce transmission