Should we be worried about our children?

[Moonme]

I know several families that are having to isolate due to children being in contact with cases at school. It seems like the Government is going for a herd immunity strategy amongst the young. Should we be concerned about this? I know the risk of dying is super low but I’ve seen a few doctors on Twitter (respected UK Drs) saying we shouldn’t be playing fast and loose with a novel virus as we don’t know the long term impacts.
What are your thoughts?

I wonder whether, since teachers - uniquely - will be working with almost 100% unvaccinated people in very close quarters with (as it seems) no mitigation at all, they could perhaps be considered for the booster vaccine programme that is being considered for 'front line workers' and the over 50s?

It is obviously disruptive for children's education if their teachers are ill, so this would seem to be of benefit to children too, with little disadvantage to anyone else?

I’d be pro vaccinating my children, based on the PIMS complication of my niece - and even if my children are low risk from Covid, I think the potential risk of vaccine side effects are even lower.

The future side effects of the vaccine can be predicted with greater degree of certainty than potential future side effects/mutations from Covid.

pets.webmd.com/cats/cat-fip-feline-infectious-peritonitis

There is a coronavirus which affects cats and I think is poorly understood why some cats react so badly to it. 10% have serious reaction where the virus will multiply and mutate and it is eventually be fatal.
It just shows coronavirus’s can do strange thing in other species.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

I don’t understand why the government are dragging their heels about vaccinating the over 12’s.

It seems every other western nation is doing it. The more it spreads in schools, the higher the threat of mutation.

It’s just my view but I don’t think they are dragging their heels, just getting through over 18s first. The reason some other countries can cover children already is because their vaccine take up rate us so low so they have both spare doses and room in the infrastructure to start in children.

I reckon if from September they let it rip through schools (all parents and teachers will have been double dosed by then) schools could be at individual herd immunity by October half term.

@NakedAttraction with the remaining weeks of school and all the summer schemes going ahead, we may find that the majority of children are already immune come September. I really wish they would do antibody testing on young people, maybe from age 12, to get an idea of their antibody levels already. Many of these concerns about children may be completely irrelevant if most of them have already been exposed to the virus and are immune.

@cantkeepawayforever

I wonder whether, since teachers - uniquely - will be working with almost 100% unvaccinated people in very close quarters with (as it seems) no mitigation at all, they could perhaps be considered for the booster vaccine programme that is being considered for 'front line workers' and the over 50s?

It is obviously disruptive for children's education if their teachers are ill, so this would seem to be of benefit to children too, with little disadvantage to anyone else?

I should add that I KNOW that double vaccination of all school staff should reduce the chances of hospitalisation and death very substantially. However, having a teacher away for several weeks for a 'not quite hospital level' dose of Covid can still be really disruptive, especially for e.g. Y11 or Y13 students who may need a specialist in their subject teaching them at a critical point in their education.

@Dustyboots

Do you know any child who has been seriously unwell due to Covid OP?

Does anyone here?

We all must know 100s of children and Covid’s been circulating in schools freely for nearly 2 years now. I’m not aware of any children who have been unwell. So I’m not worried.

There is plenty of children who have been seriously unwell with covid. In the US atm children are making up 25% of all covid admissions to hospital related to the delta strain which is leading to concern by paediatricians because it wasn't something that was seen during previous waves of covid when children weren't ending up in hospital.

@jumpbounce do you have a source for that?

I wish we could make the choice for our own children, vaccine or herd immunity.

For my older dc I would definitely choose vaccine.

Have seen some younger patients with long covid and it does need to be taken more seriously.

@Hornbill123456789

I’d be pro vaccinating my children, based on the PIMS complication of my niece - and even if my children are low risk from Covid, I think the potential risk of vaccine side effects are even lower. The future side effects of the vaccine can be predicted with greater degree of certainty than potential future side effects/mutations from Covid.

I absolutely agree. We really don't know much about covid and how it may evolve if left to spread. I'd rather my dc take the small risk of vaccine.

[quote bumbleymummy]@jumpbounce do you have a source for that?[/quote]
No official source. I haven't looked into the official data for the US yet. I just happen to follow mainstream US media and it has been mentioned quite a bit over the last few days in contrast to reports over the last year.

www.tmj4.com/news/coronavirus/greatest-threat-a-warning-on-the-dangers-of-covid-19s-delta-variant-and-children

@jumpbounce I’d be really hesitant to take US media as gospel. During the winter wave the UK media incorrectly reported “wards full of children with covid” which turned out to be completely false. It would be very strange if children in the US were being affected more severely than children in the UK. Delta is much more prevalent here and we’re not seeing that trend.

What happens in sept when a child gets covid in class of 30.
Covid spread from 1 child to 9 my sons class.
If they had not told 2 classes stay home and siblings it would spread thorough out school and closed entire primary for all year groups ro year 6.
Its mostly year 6 cases at sons primary.

Unfortunately it did spread to parents and siblings.

In eldest senior school we upto 7casss year 10.
1 because child came in whilst awaiting pcrr test so sent entire science class home and least 1 other close contact has tested postive and the child sibling in year 9.

So will be just isolate postive child and thier entire household?
I doubt we will get paid being ill.

Theres knock on effects low staff which has shut some schools and put strain on already short staff fed nhs.
If work place absence is huge in autumn winter it will cost the economy loads.
Affect services , education and health.
Its not just about how many in hospital.

Getting rid of bubbles increased opportunity it to spread.
Testing is not compulsory or typical at primary level so primary be blind how many cases they have.
Testing is after horse has bolted.
No mitigating safety measures likely machines/ air purifiers smaller classes continuing with masks.

No investment in more child freindly testing.

Pediatric and a and e within nhs is already struggling and its summer.
We no idea what will happen with flu this year.

Better cleaning , distancing and masks could help with flu.
Financial support if you are ill.

I have feeling it will all go wrong and its our kids that will suffer.
Ill kids mean adults parents not working .

Our local schools Bristol are already on their knees and higher than r rate locally 300 per 100k for bristol and higher than 10_14 in England overall.
Bristol children hospital is saying please don't visit children a and e unless emergency.
Everything from nurseries primary secondary and university are struggling.

I’m not finding a reliable source either for the US but it certainly doesn’t seem to be the case in the U.K.

“Steve Turner, Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health registrar and consultant paediatrician at Royal Aberdeen Children’s hospital, said, “As it stands there are very few children in hospital in Scotland and across the whole of the UK due to covid. We’re not seeing any evidence of an increase in paediatric admissions with covid. A very small number of admissions who test positive for covid is what we’d expect.”

www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1513

Last post to @NakedAttraction

From America:

More than 4 million children have tested positive for COVID-19 in the US, 18,500 were hospitalized and 336 have died from the disease, according to the AAP. About 4,000 kids have been hospitalized with multisystem inflammatory syndrome children or MIS-C – a rare, but dangerous condition the CDC says is associated with COVID-19.

Think it’s inevitable that - the unvaccinated would make up more admissions, so proportionally that could be more children? But I don’t know how far that would indicate that it’s more problematic in children - hopefully not…

But definitely looking at the figures above, the risk from Covid is higher than the risk of complications from vaccine.

Is that since the start of the pandemic?

There's a spectrum of vulnerability. A very very few CEV mid teens have been vaccinated, there are lots of other kids on immune suppressants, being seen in secondary care for call sorts of conditions who aren't being offered vaccinations yet.

Ok so they can as it’s approved or is it off license?
It seems slow but maybe there’s reasons (other than cost)? I can only imagine how parents feel.

AnyFucker yet again has nailed it. Totally agree.

So will be just isolate postive child and thier entire household?
I doubt we will get paid being ill.

I read yesterday that one of the reasons they want to end isolation for close contacts (other than it being a pain in the ass) is because they will be able to focus the financial assistance towards those who actually test positive. Would be interesting to see if there is help for parents of children testing positive who are not able to work when their kids are off school.

I think it read it in the times.

[quote NakedAttraction]@jumpbounce I’d be really hesitant to take US media as gospel. During the winter wave the UK media incorrectly reported “wards full of children with covid” which turned out to be completely false. It would be very strange if children in the US were being affected more severely than children in the UK. Delta is much more prevalent here and we’re not seeing that trend.[/quote]
I doubt that is fair, re the reporting of children's wards at Xmas. There was 1 nurse as I remember who said that her ward had a lot of children with covid on it. She may well have been reporting her experience accurately.

I think she was in London and my hunch is that children with covid would be moved to the same ward for infection control reasons, so there may have been designated children's wards which were indeed full of children. Given that there were a large number of infections in schoolchildren at the time, that sort of scenario is actually very likely.

Especially as, I agree, it would be strange if children in the US were being affected more severely than in the UK.

However, that would still have been a very small % of the many thousands of children with infections.

There were probably more than 4 million kids with coronavirus in the US as some wouldn't have been tested.

The numbers in hospital or who died would be a very small % of the millions who had covid. A large number - but a very small %.

This would be a reasonable discussion if herd immunity was actually a thing with covid, but it's not. It's a lie.

We saw that in Manaus Brazil, they had a first wave where enough should have been affected to get to herd immunity, then they got a new variant and had a devastating second wave with hospitals and graveyards overwhelmed yet again.

It's already been shown that immunity from the vaccine is better / longer lasting than from catching the disease.

If it was a case of kids catching it once and then having immunity this strategy might be a reasonable case, but if you're looking at kids catching a new variant every year, then it's not. Much worse than the flu, which we vaccinate for.

Students at university near me are now catching Delta having caught Alpha in October. They seem to have very little immunity.

I want my child to have the vaccine as soon as possible. I would like that choice.

My 16y old has had both doses of the Pfizer vaccine, due to a parent being CEV, no side effects whatsoever, not even a sore arm. We're currently investigating whether we can get 14y old done now under the same scheme. We plan to travel, when we can, and I would feel much better taking them through airports etc if both fully vaccinated.

The 16y old has three friends who also have had both doses, no side effects, due to moderate asthma (some hospitalisation
sthmakids). I find it strange that children with conditions where they are actually immunosuppressed aren't being offered the vaccine when children with moderate asthma are? Especially now it's licenced for 12+.

@NakedAttraction

*So will be just isolate postive child and thier entire household? I doubt we will get paid being ill.*

I read yesterday that one of the reasons they want to end isolation for close contacts (other than it being a pain in the ass) is because they will be able to focus the financial assistance towards those who actually test positive. Would be interesting to see if there is help for parents of children testing positive who are not able to work when their kids are off school.

I think it read it in the times.

Pigs will fly is what I think re assistance to those who test positive.

The Tories want

• to please their members, their donors and U4T, however they think that through
• get parents back to work
• keep the kids doing schoolwork to make them employable citizens

There are of course positives to the last 2, we can probably agree

But it would come at the expense of covid going all through schools and back to families.