Should we be worried about our children?

[Moonme]

I know several families that are having to isolate due to children being in contact with cases at school. It seems like the Government is going for a herd immunity strategy amongst the young. Should we be concerned about this? I know the risk of dying is super low but I’ve seen a few doctors on Twitter (respected UK Drs) saying we shouldn’t be playing fast and loose with a novel virus as we don’t know the long term impacts.
What are your thoughts?

I am very concerned about the government's apparent plan to allow Covid to rip through schools from September. I am personally glad that (as of May this year) I no longer have DC in school. Firstly, there is the issue that the more cases of Covid you have, the greater the chance of producing a vaccine-defeating variant. Secondly there is the issue that even if only a small percentage of children suffer long-term effects from Covid, a small percentage of a big number is still a big number. There are more measures that the government could be taking which, though not eliminating Covid risk, would at least reduce the amount of virus children are exposed to, eg in the UK we appear to be uniquely resistant to getting secondary school students to wear masks. The Pfizer vaccine has been approved for use in over 12s, so personally if I had a 12+ DC and knew that the government had pretty much abandoned any attempt to reduce their exposure to Covid, I would want my DC vaccinated.

I agree. I think we may have to accept regular revaccination as well, as it does seem to go through populations again and again.

@AnyFucker

Yes. I am worried.

About their education. About their mental health. About the increasing isolation and lack of safeguarding for children in violent homes. About the undiagnosed and unmonitored serious illnesses bubbling under. About their reducing ability to fight other infections than COVID.

Not about COVID itself. The country has collectively lost its fucking mind where that is concerned.

This sums it up for me.

And finally, a bottom line on the potential for MIS-C in American children from @Hornbill123456789 - 1 in 1000 who have a positive test. No wonder they've kept the like figures in the UK very much under wraps.

@Hornbill123456789

Thank you! I’m so sorry to hear about your niece as well. I hope she’s over the worst of it and recovering well. It can be pretty worrying when not much is known about either covid or pims. With ds, he seemed to get every symptom a couple of weeks before it was widely known about. I remember his consultant joking that they were going to write the guidebook based on whatever was happening to him!

I’m so glad that how covid affected him is a relatively rare reaction, but it would be lovely, on mumsnet of all places to not have to deal with people still saying “well, I don’t know a child it’s happened to, therefore it’s not a problem.” “Well, I don’t know a child with long covid therefore it doesn’t exist.”

@Hornbill123456789

From America:

More than 4 million children have tested positive for COVID-19 in the US, 18,500 were hospitalized and 336 have died from the disease, according to the AAP. About 4,000 kids have been hospitalized with multisystem inflammatory syndrome children or MIS-C – a rare, but dangerous condition the CDC says is associated with COVID-19.

Think it’s inevitable that - the unvaccinated would make up more admissions, so proportionally that could be more children? But I don’t know how far that would indicate that it’s more problematic in children - hopefully not…

But definitely looking at the figures above, the risk from Covid is higher than the risk of complications from vaccine.

Those hospitalisation and death figures are pretty much in line with those for annual flu in children in the US - you can check on the cdc pages. Deaths are slightly higher and closer to the h1n1 figures in 2009

@bumbleymummy and the MIS-C figures for children after flu?

@theemperorhasnoclothes

It's already been shown that immunity from the vaccine is better / longer lasting than from catching the disease.

Where? We have longer term data for immunity after natural infection than after vaccination atm.

[quote SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo]@bumbleymummy and the MIS-C figures for children after flu?[/quote]
Mis-c isn’t associated with flu, it’s a condition that they’re studying irt coronavirus. There are other conditions that can be triggered by flu though if you want to look up their incidence.

@SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo - thanks so much, and she does seem absolutely fine now. And I wish the same for your son - I hope he recovers fully.

It was the trauma of not knowing what the hell was happening. My niece has been told to isolate due to a case in her class over xmas, then it was lockdown and the very high temperature suddenly came out of nowhere and she hadn’t been mixing for several weeks.
Getting her into hospital was awful too - along with the not knowing, and the symptoms being very similar to things like leukaemia.

We hadn’t heard of PIMS up until then either.

So - having been through it, I really feel for you.
I think it’s very difficult sometimes for people to acknowledge, without direct personal experience - especially on social media.
I hope you’ve had lots of good support IRL. Xx

@Barbie222

And finally, a bottom line on the potential for MIS-C in American children from *@Hornbill123456789* - 1 in 1000 who have a positive test. No wonder they've kept the like figures in the UK very much under wraps.

I remember the UK government deliberately hid data about the delta variant in schools just before it announced it was scrapping masks. Did that data (and subsequent data on delta in schools) ever see the light of day? As I don't remember seeing it.

It does concern me too. The delta wave is well and truly here and in a way, it’s also up to us as parents how much our children are exposed and it feels like quite a responsibility.

I really don't know what the answer is to this - I don't think anyone does really, including the medical profession and government.

However, from a purely personal perspective, my 15yo just had 2 weeks isolation - he tested positive on day 4 of isolating as a close contact.
He was mildly ill for 2 or 3 days, but by about day 11 he was really suffering mentally- he's very social and usually at the gym 5 times a week. I know which of the two affected him more 🤷🏼‍♀️

@Babdoc

Well there are only two options for children, OP. Herd immunity or vaccination. Take your pick.

Yeah?

Are children the world over living like this?

We have the choice to suppress the virus.

Our high vaccination rate will make it much easier.

As of yesterday half the U.K. population is double jabbed. That puts us nearly 3/4 of the way to herd immunity.

It's a political choice to have treated children this way for the whole pandemic.

It's a political choice not to protect British children.

It's a political choice to talk Britain down and say we couldn't fight covid properly here.

It's a political choice to throw in the towel, surrender to the virus and let British people suffer, die and get Long Covid.

@LilyPond2

Because after more than a year, we have plenty of data from all over the world showing the effects of the virus on children are very mild.

Most children. And I repeat my point that if a small percentage of children suffer severe consequences from the virus, a small percentage of of the total child population in this country still amounts to a lot of children suffering as a result of Covid. And by definition we have no data on the long- term effects of Covid in children. There are certainly other examples of viruses that can hang around in a person's system and periodically cause problems years later. How can we know that won't be the case for the Covid virus?

Exactly, like chicken pox later having the risk to develop into shingles. We don't know if catching it a second time will be worse, there are so many unknowns. I agree vaccination has risks but to imply that this risk is more than the risks associated with covid is disingenuous.

I hate my kids being ill.

I'd do anything to protect them.

I would certainly do all I could to protect them from being ill for months or years, and possibly getting brain damage.

You?

I think an issue with a 'reservoir' of unvaccinated people who are deemed not at risk, is the emergence of a new variant, which could affect those who are vaccinated and are at risk.

I think vaccination should be available for over12s right now - optionally (so people who are anti-vaccinating their DC don't have to do it and can't stop others who do want to vaccinate their DC).

After all, the benefit/risk assessment has already been done by the MHRA - infinitely more qualified than the cabinet (or the average MNer).

@Regulus So far, most data shows that most subsequent infections tend to be milder.

@PrincessNutNuts

I hate my kids being ill.

I'd do anything to protect them.

I would certainly do all I could to protect them from being ill for months or years, and possibly getting brain damage.

You?

Just when I agree with one of your previous posts...

Mis-c isn’t associated with flu

That’s exactly my point, @bumbleymummy (also not sure how you missed from my post that I know exactly what MIS-C is, given what ds has been through.)

And I have tried to find figures for post viral fatigue after influenza for children, both in the uk and the USA, but couldn’t find any info. Maybe you’ll have more luck, in your attempts to dismiss what kids like ds have gone through. What a fun project for a Sunday

Your well wishes for my ds, if they indeed exist, are much appreciated.

Plus the current situation is the government/teaching unions having it both ways-
not vaccinating the pupils because they are low-risk
but at the same time making them spend repeated periods of 10 days isolated at home with disruption to their education, physical health, mental health, fitness and life chances.
Just get on with vaccinating those who want the vaccine and if you don't want it - that is a choice that may come with consequences.

Agree that it’s either kids get it or we vaccinate them. Covid will find everyone who is not vaccinated. Seeing as the risks to them are so low, we’re going with kids getting it

You can’t just keep suppressing the virus forever can you?

@LoathingAndFear

Plus the current situation is the government/teaching unions having it both ways- not vaccinating the pupils because they are low-risk but at the same time making them spend repeated periods of 10 days isolated at home with disruption to their education, physical health, mental health, fitness and life chances. Just get on with vaccinating those who want the vaccine and if you don't want it - that is a choice that may come with consequences.

Yes children are bearing brunt and the harm is there

I’m not hugely invested in which way JCVI go, but stop with above. Already children will have lost out hugely due to last couple of years.

@LoathingAndFear

Plus the current situation is the government/teaching unions having it both ways- not vaccinating the pupils because they are low-risk but at the same time making them spend repeated periods of 10 days isolated at home with disruption to their education, physical health, mental health, fitness and life chances. Just get on with vaccinating those who want the vaccine and if you don't want it - that is a choice that may come with consequences.

Can you explain the role the teaching unions have in children not being vaccinated??

The government's role - that I understand. they don't have the supply to vaccinate them anyway, so are shilly shallying unless and until the supply becomes available and they can do the 'knight on a white charger' act again.

The teaching unions? Not so much.

@Barbie222 @herecomesthsun
It feels like they are marching on with a ‘you’ve been told, it’s up to you now, we’ve got to live with it’ type strategy. I certainly think that’s the right thing to do over the summer, but come winter - I guess no one knows.
My thoughts have always been listen to the science - not necessarily the government.
So I’ll continue to take precautions, take whatever vaccine is available, be mindful of the risks, do what I can to protect others - and just carry on!