Should we be worried about our children?

[Moonme]

I know several families that are having to isolate due to children being in contact with cases at school. It seems like the Government is going for a herd immunity strategy amongst the young. Should we be concerned about this? I know the risk of dying is super low but I’ve seen a few doctors on Twitter (respected UK Drs) saying we shouldn’t be playing fast and loose with a novel virus as we don’t know the long term impacts.
What are your thoughts?

@Dustyboots

Do you know any child who has been seriously unwell due to Covid OP?

Does anyone here?

We all must know 100s of children and Covid’s been circulating in schools freely for nearly 2 years now. I’m not aware of any children who have been unwell. So I’m not worried.

It depends on your area. We only know of 3 possibly 4 kids, plus half a dozen that just got it in the last week, closing most of DC's school.

Statistically 2/100 will have significant symptoms for at least 8 weeks, though very, very few will die.

I still think it is better for children not to be exposed unnecessarily.

And there remains the risk of spread to families, whose double vaccinations, by autumn and winter, may be wearing off.

Vaccination. But we aren't being offered that. Shoving them all in unvaccinated schools and letting it rip is cheaper innit

It’s not cost it’s risk. Cost is a drop in the ocean to overall Covid cost.

Was there not another way though in which the Government could have invested more in schools to enable more outdoor learning/smaller class sizes etc been more progressive in it’s thinking?

They probably could and should have done more, but most of the really impactful steps would have taken years.

Like ‘smaller class sizes’ - ok, sounds good, but it means you’ve got more classes now and nowhere to put them and nobody to teach them. How long does it take to make/find all that extra teaching space? How long to recruit and train up the extra teaching staff?

Assessing risk that is. Still might happen

I don’t trust the government, and although I think restrictions should be lifted on 19th - I’m very much keeping in mind what the scientists say.

I am concerned about how this will impact children - or if they could act as potential reservoirs for new mutations.

There is a link on diabetics UK - a possible connection between Covid and a rise in type 1 diabetes in children. I’m also concerned about PIMS.
I’m concerned that the government are now saying what the voters want to hear, and ignoring scientific advice.

I think the timing of July19th was linked to schools closing for summer holidays. I think we will be fine over the summer, but it’s what happens over the winter months….

@JeanClaudeVanDammit

Vaccination. But we aren't being offered that. Shoving them all in unvaccinated schools and letting it rip is cheaper innit.

Of course it’s not about cost. There are adults who haven’t had first doses yet, over 50s who haven’t had 2nd doses, are you seriously complaining that children haven’t yet been vaccinated? To outweigh the absolutely minuscule risk to healthy children from Covid, this would have to be the safest vaccine ever created.

If I had an older teenager I’d probably feel differently but with very young DC I’m far more concerned about vaccination for them than covid and I’m about as far from an antivaxxer as it gets.

1. cost & availability are factors yes

1. there is discussion of removing every safeguard from schools and putting nothing in its place. Unless vaccination is there as an option, especially for vulnerable kids, yes I would seriously suggest that is terrible.

1. I am not suggesting kids should be vaccinated instead of 4 year olds, I don't know where you got that from.

1. It's a bit convoluted to follow your line of thought on risks, but yes the risks from vaccines do indeed appear minuscule from the millions of doses already given, and I note that many other countries such as the US are rolling out vaccines to kids

1. I have a teenager with a number of medical conditions. I think vaccines should be optional and certainly would insist that someone who is doubtful about them and has very young children should have to use them. For a teenager who has a degree of vulnerability I think there should be a choice. Especially the way that kids are crammed into state secondaries, my primary school child is in a much safer looking set up.

@amylou8

Children are much more at risk from our our response to covid than to covid itself.

This.

that should be instead of 50 year olds

@Hornbill123456789

I think the timing of July19th was linked to schools closing for summer holidays. I think we will be fine over the summer, but it’s what happens over the winter months….

agree

I think everyone is just tired and frustrated but it’s definitely unreasonable to me that we are opening up things like sporting events, which are going to help spread covid around the country more and allowing people to travel to other countries for leisure when if anyone in a class gets a positive test the whole class has to isolate. It puts a huge burden on kids/working parents (mostly mothers) and it’s mainly for the benefit of those in society who are best off financially (a lot of whom as someone mentioned will be white, middle aged men).

Given that you aren’t supposed to use LFTs on primary children, and for asymptomatic testing only, it’s ripping through primary school children already, virtually unseen. There’s the herd immunity by stealth.

@JeanClaudeVanDammit

5. I have a teenager with a number of medical conditions. I think vaccines should be optional and certainly would insist that someone who is doubtful about them and has very young children should have to use them. For a teenager who has a degree of vulnerability I think there should be a choice. Especially the way that kids are crammed into state secondaries, my primary school child is in a much safer looking set up.

I assume you mean wouldn’t insist otherwise you can go fuck yourself. And clearly having a CV teenager will make you feel differently. The idea that cost is what has meant teenagers have not yet been vaccinated is a complete nonsense, that was the point being made.

sorry, yes wouldn't

Funny enough I don't think at all that cost is a complete nonsense.

We have limited supplies of vaccine (and that also relates to cost as well as supply) and there are also logistical and cost issues around vaccinating even more millions of people.

It is much much easier to let the infection pass through schools. That hasn't happened so far because schools are a significant driver of infection in the community (they may or may not be THE most important one at any given time but schools and educational establishments are a really important venue of spread).

Now that most of the adult population is vaccinated they could go for herd immunity in schools and it looks like that is on the table.

They will be weighing up the relative costs of everything they do.

The availability of vaccine doses will also be key- and acquiring doses was totally a venture capitalist exercise and was all about cost too.

As far as clinical risk is concerned, the US will be hugely concerned by that and if the CDC is going with vaccination for teens then they will be poring over risk and that will be available to us. The US assessment is that benefit outweighs risk (and there is a hint that Chris Whitty is sympathetic to this in its clinical and social aspects)

To suggest that cost Isn't part of the thinking is just naive. Just look at the people doing the decision-making.

To suggest that cost Isn't part of the thinking is just naive. Just look at the people doing the decision-making.

The decision on this is currently with the JCVI. Do you mean they are including cost in this?

@JeanClaudeVanDammit

sorry, yes wouldn't

Funny enough I don't think at all that cost is a complete nonsense.

We have limited supplies of vaccine (and that also relates to cost as well as supply) and there are also logistical and cost issues around vaccinating even more millions of people.

It is much much easier to let the infection pass through schools. That hasn't happened so far because schools are a significant driver of infection in the community (they may or may not be THE most important one at any given time but schools and educational establishments are a really important venue of spread).

Now that most of the adult population is vaccinated they could go for herd immunity in schools and it looks like that is on the table.

They will be weighing up the relative costs of everything they do.

The availability of vaccine doses will also be key- and acquiring doses was totally a venture capitalist exercise and was all about cost too.

As far as clinical risk is concerned, the US will be hugely concerned by that and if the CDC is going with vaccination for teens then they will be poring over risk and that will be available to us. The US assessment is that benefit outweighs risk (and there is a hint that Chris Whitty is sympathetic to this in its clinical and social aspects)

To suggest that cost Isn't part of the thinking is just naive. Just look at the people doing the decision-making.

Covid itself was causing oeriod issues so no point worrying more about vax.

I would choose vax.
It is our gov and unless it is dangerous - it isnt as the part has already been passed. Then we should be offering the vax to 12+.
However i would offer to those who havent had a positive pcr first. That could be 1m kids by end of summer holidays.

It does seems reckless to let covid rip in schools etc. There have been cases and evidence found of covid affecting brain tissue, kidneys etc, possibilities of increased risk of diabetes etc.

As usual the line will be "there is no evidence of", but honestly I try not to think about it. Millions of people including Hordes of NHS staff, teachers, care home workers public transport staff and kids etc have had it already so I hope long term effects are limited/non existent!

@Dustyboots

Do you know any child who has been seriously unwell due to Covid OP?

Does anyone here?

We all must know 100s of children and Covid’s been circulating in schools freely for nearly 2 years now. I’m not aware of any children who have been unwell. So I’m not worried.

Ds had covid in 2020, and it wasn’t just a runny nose/mild cold for him. He had a fever of 40 for 5 days, horrible cough, then rash, swelling, and then ongoing side effects for about a year after, countless doctors appointments, blood tests. (He’s having another flare up right now, but thankfully milder than usual). He didn’t have any underlying conditions, it was just random bad luck. Thankfully that kind of reaction is rare, but knowing what can happen, I’d prefer it if no kids had to go through what ds went through.

(although if I dare mention what’s happened to him on mn, some posters get very weird and accuse me of scaremongering, lying, trawl through my past posts to find inconsistencies, deny that long covid exists, shriek “it’s incredibly rare why are you even talking about it!”. I understand that people are incredibly stressed after a year+ of restrictions and really want life to get back to normal, so find it hard to cope with the idea of covid actually affecting children. I get it. But when people ask if covid actually affects children, and I give my experience, the only non-cuntish response is “thank god this is rare, but it sounds like it was horrible for your son. I hope he gets well soon.”

@MarshaBradyo

To suggest that cost Isn't part of the thinking is just naive. Just look at the people doing the decision-making.

The decision on this is currently with the JCVI. Do you mean they are including cost in this?

Well NICE include cost in pretty much every decision they make, notoriously so.

Chickenpox vaccine was quite difficult to obtain 6 or 7 years ago, whereas it iwas routine in US Australia etc (it may have changed). I believe cost was a factor in that, along with some idea that it might have an impact on shingles in older people.

If the vaccine is rolled out to younger teenagers then it might possibly affect availability for remaining adults who haven't got their doses yet or NHS staff whose immunity is waning.

So there are precedents for advice around medication including vaccination being influenced by considerations of cost and there is also a practical issue around availability.

Realistically these decisions don't take place in a vacuum do they?

Here it’s probably possible to find what JCVI decide on. They will have criteria.

I have dc in secondary. I don't know any child who's been particularly ill with covid. Also, as far as I can tell, the majority of kids who caught it actually caught it outside of school, by family members etc, not in school. And the majority of those who had to isolate as a result of being in contact with an infected student didn't get covid, including my kids. We need close contacts to test every day and still be in school, not this constant isolation.

Personally I think it’s a stretch that the group of experts with the backgrounds as listed includes cost but if you can find it maybe they do include it.

@SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo thank you for sharing and my best wishes to your son. Sounds like an awful experience.

My niece suffered from a PIMs reaction, and it was truly dreadful, not knowing what was going on. I fully sympathise.

I think it’s worth sharing what happens with PIMS (at least from my experience)

• strongly suspect that family member had Covid when first hit, but not diagnosed

• family member was exposed again in her class about a year later

• several weeks after the second exposure family member developed stomach pains and a very high temperature that was consistently high for 5 days

• she needed to be admitted to hospital for blood tests

I think it’s really worth keeping an eye out for, because she wasn’t very poorly with her first exposure - but with the PIMS reaction, my understanding was it was her bodies immune response to detecting the virus again.