Should we be worried about our children?

[Moonme]

I know several families that are having to isolate due to children being in contact with cases at school. It seems like the Government is going for a herd immunity strategy amongst the young. Should we be concerned about this? I know the risk of dying is super low but I’ve seen a few doctors on Twitter (respected UK Drs) saying we shouldn’t be playing fast and loose with a novel virus as we don’t know the long term impacts.
What are your thoughts?

Not even the experts seem know at this point whether it’s safe to give the vaccine to teenagers or children . That says quite a lot.

There was a big scandal in Europe when they mass vaccinated teenagers against the swein flue a few years ago. Some teenagers developed narcolepsy several months after having the vaccine and that was directly linked to the vaccine. No adults seemed to be affected. There’s no cure for that and the parents who let their kids have that jab will regret it forever.

Even if the vaccine has proven to be safe for adults they still don’t know if it could have potential side effects for younger people and we won’t have the answers to that until later when enough teenagers or kids have been vaccinated . In my opinion it’s better to wait .It’s a known fact that the younger you are the more likely you are to get side effects from vaccines .
I wouldn’t let my kids have the vaccine at this point but maybe later on.

I know a teenager with long COVID, nearly had it a year, only managing about an hour a day in school and that has just been in the last few weeks.

Vaccinations isnt the easy choice though. There are quite a few ethical implications particularly due to the data on myocarditis in young men in particular. The US has around 1000 cases and 79% have recovered

www.health.harvard.edu/blog/new-information-for-parents-on-myocarditis-and-covid-19-vaccines-202107012523

The CDC (US) has decided that is worth it but it is difficult balancing act and the US uptake is lower in the higher age ranges than here

www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/07/vaccination-myocarditis-kids/619339/

So vaccinations/herd immunity is a very difficult balance and one that carries risks on both sides.

What is clear is the these isolations and lockdowns are having a huge impact on a lot of children.

CEV children though should be vaccinated. I think that should have been cleared awhile ago for them the risks ar emore

It is a concern. We know so little about the long term impact of covid19. It is a very strange virus. Who knows if once infected it could come back again and again when your immune system is run down, like other viruses do. There are so very many unknowns.
But the same is also said for the vaccine which at the moment only has emergency authorisation and they are still gathering safety data.
I don’t know what the answer is at all but I am not sure lifting absolutely all restrictions and allowing virus to spread very very quickly amoungst the unvaccinated is a very good idea.

There is no herd immunity, you can re catch it like a cold or flu.

@Regulus

We can't vaccinate as we 'don't know enough about the effects on children', but we can let them be exposed to a novel virus...

Because after more than a year, we have plenty of data from all over the world showing the effects of the virus on children are very mild.

I am very concerned about the government's apparent plan to allow Covid to rip through schools from September. I am personally glad that (as of May this year) I no longer have DC in school. Firstly, there is the issue that the more cases of Covid you have, the greater the chance of producing a vaccine-defeating variant. Secondly there is the issue that even if only a small percentage of children suffer long-term effects from Covid, a small percentage of a big number is still a big number. There are more measures that the government could be taking which, though not eliminating Covid risk, would at least reduce the amount of virus children are exposed to, eg in the UK we appear to be uniquely resistant to getting secondary school students to wear masks. The Pfizer vaccine has been approved for use in over 12s, so personally if I had a 12+ DC and knew that the government had pretty much abandoned any attempt to reduce their exposure to Covid, I would want my DC vaccinated.

I am puzzled by the poster suggesting lots of over 50s have not yet had second jabs. I am in my early 50s and had my second jab weeks ago. IME lots of other people my age had their jabs the same time as me. Whereabouts in the country have people in their fifties been unable to access second jabs yet? NB I don't see people in their fifties who have chosen to delay vaccination as a reason to delay vaccinating younger age groups.

That is right lemonmelonsun. There was a lot of talk by experts and member of the government about herd immunity at the start of this all. I even remember boris Johnson being interviewed by holly and Philip before the first lockdown talking about how there is a train Of thought that if we take a big hit in the first wave and let it sweep through we can bare the brunt quickly and develop herd immunity quicker as a country.
So all this talk has really stuck in many people heads I think.

As I understand it if you allow the virus to spread and mutate eventually it will be weaker, more contagious but less dangerous. Does anyone know if that true? If that’s the case it might be good to let it spread once everyone’s who’s vulnerable have been protected ? But it is a very unpredictable and strange virus so maybe they don’t know yet.

Londonannie that is a myth that people keep repeating. It probably will become more contagious. As it makes sense that a more contagious variant will dominate. But it has no reason to mutate to become less deadly as it has such a long period where it spreads before symptoms show and the dying happens much later. There have been a few experts who have spoken to try and debunk this theory.

Please be aware that children who have had COVID can develop PIMS-TS a while later although rare it's very serious and not common knowledge.

Because after more than a year, we have plenty of data from all over the world showing the effects of the virus on children are very mild.

Most children. And I repeat my point that if a small percentage of children suffer severe consequences from the virus, a small percentage of of the total child population in this country still amounts to a lot of children suffering as a result of Covid. And by definition we have no data on the long- term effects of Covid in children. There are certainly other examples of viruses that can hang around in a person's system and periodically cause problems years later. How can we know that won't be the case for the Covid virus?

@MarshaBradyo

To suggest that cost Isn't part of the thinking is just naive. Just look at the people doing the decision-making.

The decision on this is currently with the JCVI. Do you mean they are including cost in this?

Cost does factor into the JCVIs decisions on vaccines. It was one of the main reasons why they originally decided against introducing the MenB vaccine - because cases were already declining.

@LilyPond2

Because after more than a year, we have plenty of data from all over the world showing the effects of the virus on children are very mild.

Most children. And I repeat my point that if a small percentage of children suffer severe consequences from the virus, a small percentage of of the total child population in this country still amounts to a lot of children suffering as a result of Covid. And by definition we have no data on the long- term effects of Covid in children. There are certainly other examples of viruses that can hang around in a person's system and periodically cause problems years later. How can we know that won't be the case for the Covid virus?

Sorry, that should have said most, I reworded it before posting and deleted by mistake. But when we say most, it really is the vast majority.

How can you know that the vaccine won’t cause problems/long term effects? I guess it really boils down to which risk you feel more comfortable with. Given the data we have, I’m happy with the low risk of the virus to children.

If our children are still expected to isolate come September I think women should do a childcare strike. Show the men what is really happening and force them to miss work and the situation would soon change

Ok I’ve scanned this it is included

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/224864/JCVI_Code_of_Practice_revision_2013_-_final.pdf

But unlike pp I have no issue with the process or inclusion.

I am worried that there will be as yet unknown longer-term effects of Covid on children and think until there is a vaccine deemed suitable for children there needs to continue to be mitigating measures in place in schools. I also worry about vulnerable children. I teach a pupil with Down Syndrome. Adults with Down Syndrome have been badly affected by Covid and I don't know if she might be extra vulnerable given that she already has health issues associated with the DS.

@Turquoisesol ah OK thanks! I think it’s important to have all of the facts!

I did actually hear one expert saying the other day though that it might not be a bad thing if we keep being exposed to the virus because that will eventually strengthen our immune system .
But that’s a different theory.

Yes londonannie hopefully we will eventually respond in the same way we do to a common cold. But it’s all unknown

@MarshaBradyo

Ok I’ve scanned this it is included

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/224864/JCVI_Code_of_Practice_revision_2013_-_final.pdf

But unlike pp I have no issue with the process or inclusion.

Page 4 paragraph 6

To advise UK health departments on immunisations for the prevention of infections
and/or disease following due consideration of the evidence on the burden of disease,
on vaccine safety and efficacy and on the impact and cost effectiveness of immunisation strategies

thanks for clarifying that

No problem musing on it I’m glad JCVI make the cost decision rather than elsewhere. Although it probably gets considered again

Have the JCVI indicated their advice for CEV children out of interest?

I wonder why they are not splitting them out if they haven’t.

Actually some have been, some 16 year olds are getting Pfizer

[quote bumbleymummy]@Regulus

We can't vaccinate as we 'don't know enough about the effects on children', but we can let them be exposed to a novel virus...

Because after more than a year, we have plenty of data from all over the world showing the effects of the virus on children are very mild.[/quote]
Human papillomavirus can lie dormant for 10-20 years before triggering cervical cancer. Chicken pox can be reactivated as shingles years later.

Viruses do have a track record for substantially delayed effects. Unlike vaccines.

Neither of those are coronaviruses.

Many of the vaccines we give now haven’t been around for 10-20 years btw.

@MarshaBradyo

Have the JCVI indicated their advice for CEV children out of interest?

I wonder why they are not splitting them out if they haven’t.

Actually some have been, some 16 year olds are getting Pfizer

There's a spectrum of vulnerability. A very very few CEV mid teens have been vaccinated, there are lots of other kids on immune suppressants, being seen in secondary care for call sorts of conditions who aren't being offered vaccinations yet.