Anti-lockdowners pretending to care about kids again

[noblegiraffe]

So it's all over the news about how nearly 400,000 kids are having to isolate because of covid cases in schools. Complaints about how disruptive to education it is and to the mental health of the children involved. This disruptive isolation must end as soon as possible.

Contrast to last November when nearly a million kids were self-isolating in a week. Do you remember the headlines, discussions and outrage about that?

No, of course you don't. Because back then, the solution to so many kids isolating was to put more mitigation measures in schools and attempt to stop so many kids catching it.

Now they can argue that it doesn't matter if all kids catch it, they're all over the 'terrible' isolation figures which are less than half of those last year.

I'm SO done with people only caring about kids and education when they think that they can use them for their own benefit.

If these loud voices could be used to talk about things like the cuts to pupil premium, the pitiful covid catch-up funding, the critical shortage of teachers, the unsafe state of schools, the massive waiting lists for CAMHS and SEN services, then maybe I'd believe them when they claim to care about children.

But it only mattered when the most at risk were unvaccinated

But that wasn't the only risk, was it? Nearly a million kids isolating in one week in November.

Now it's 'nearly 400,000' and people discussing how terrible it is.

Well why weren't they concerned back then? Why were people all over mumsnet telling people with concerns about the situation in schools that they were wrong?

There is no appetite from the government to make schools safer. Covid is spreading fast in schools. SI is horrid and many people don't bother (the same ones who don't bother testing etc, yet ironically the same ones who want things back to normal, but aren't helping to control the spread). People want normality. The government has massively undermined a lot of effort made by people in lockdown - two sets of rules, no accountability when they fuck up, letting delta variant seed here before putting India on red list, lip service to isolations, mass events etc.

Many kids don't get ill, many do though and some will be permanently affected. This is a small percentage but how rampant are we willing to let covid get in schools - what number of children ill / hospitalised / long term or permanently affected per year is acceptable? We need to assess this as well as the numbers of adults per year we are willing to accept dying from Covid.

Right now, we are giving kids the choice of isolation, illness, spreading a disease that thankfully will now kill and hospitalise fewer people, school closure, mh issues etc. We could throw some money at making schools safer, but nah, that's too simple. Let's spend it on advertising campaigns showing how safe schools are instead!

@noblegiraffe

But it only mattered when the most at risk were unvaccinated

But that wasn't the only risk, was it? Nearly a million kids isolating in one week in November.

Now it's 'nearly 400,000' and people discussing how terrible it is.

Well why weren't they concerned back then? Why were people all over mumsnet telling people with concerns about the situation in schools that they were wrong?

We’ve all answered your question OP, you aren’t listening. We all hated kids being told to isolate when the risk to the kids was minor- but we understood the need- now the need isn’t there.

So no vaccine for children, all the restriction dropped is what people want and gets, then cv/cev children are totally screwed. I wonder what do people think about that, really. Collateral damage?

@roguetomato

So no vaccine for children, all the restriction dropped is what people want and gets, then cv/cev children are totally screwed. I wonder what do people think about that, really. Collateral damage?

So screw over all children then? Who does that benefit

rogue I must admit I’m not understanding what you’re suggesting.

I'm not sure I get the OPs point really?

People are, in my mind, quite rightly worried about all the time off school children are continuing to have due to these repeated bubble closure isolations. We are 18 months on and still repeated isolations from school. Some areas ok Uk will have had lots of isolations as well as the whole country lockdowns.

The difference between now and November is that now most of the vulnerable have been vaccinated and most adults will have been at least single vaccinated. actual hospital cases are so much lower. If hospital cases remain low, there perhaps isn't the same cost benefit of keeping the poor children off school to stop the spread. Children themselves aren't at much risk.... But they are the ones missing out now while elderly people who are double jabbed can go where they want.

Not sure this thread has gone quite how the OP wanted. What with all the sensible, calm responses on how the situation now is a little bit different to November. Nothing really to add as many other posters have summed it up perfectly.

We’ve all answered your question OP, you aren’t listening. We all hated kids being told to isolate when the risk to the kids was minor- but we understood the need- now the need isn’t there

Yep. I also hate the pathetic government catch up plans. Hate it all. Not sure what that makes me?

It seems fairly clear that being double vaccinated will not stop a lot of people from catching Covid. Hopefully it will prevent a serious case, but a less serious one would still lead to absence. Or are we suggesting that Covid positive cases should keep coming into work themselves?
Personally I'm happy for children to stop isolating as long as the isolation of contacts stops everywhere else. No more test and trace etc.

We all hated kids being told to isolate when the risk to the kids was minor- but we understood the need- now the need isn’t there.

Perfectly summarised!

As others have already said the cost/benefit situation has changed massively now vaccine efficacy has been proved.

Don’t forget that the original reason for lockdown, school closures etc was to ‘protect the NHS’. For me this is the only justification for inflicting so much disruption on children and young people. Well, a country of 60+ million has less than 20 COVID deaths per day. So, regardless of the amount of transmission of the virus in schools, there’s no justification for further disrupting kids education and lives.

We all hated kids being told to isolate when the risk to the kids was minor- but we understood the need- now the need isn’t there.

That's fine. Were you also vehemently against putting any mitigation measures into schools to reduce the number of isolations back when they were much higher than they are now? Did you spend your time shutting down conversations about how bad the situation was in schools instead pretending that things were fine? Did you suggest, like some on here did, that tens of thousands of kids out of school in Birmingham and Liverpool was a 'local issue' and not deserving of discussion on national news?

Because if that wasn't you...if you were baffled as to why the government wasn't putting any money into schools to reduce the spread of covid there, and angry at the chaos it was causing, then this thread isn't about you.

If your only concern about kids welfare and education in this pandemic is loudly voiced when it's part of an argument to reduce mitigation measures, then that's who I'm talking about.

Not sure this thread has gone quite how the OP wanted

It's going just fine actually. Some people seem to think the best defence is a good offence. They can't quite manage it though.

@noblegiraffe

We all hated kids being told to isolate when the risk to the kids was minor- but we understood the need- now the need isn’t there.

That's fine. Were you also vehemently against putting any mitigation measures into schools to reduce the number of isolations back when they were much higher than they are now? Did you spend your time shutting down conversations about how bad the situation was in schools instead pretending that things were fine? Did you suggest, like some on here did, that tens of thousands of kids out of school in Birmingham and Liverpool was a 'local issue' and not deserving of discussion on national news?

Because if that wasn't you...if you were baffled as to why the government wasn't putting any money into schools to reduce the spread of covid there, and angry at the chaos it was causing, then this thread isn't about you.

If your only concern about kids welfare and education in this pandemic is loudly voiced when it's part of an argument to reduce mitigation measures, then that's who I'm talking about.

For me personally it’s both- I actually think the treatment of children and their education especially in this whole pandemic has been a giant scape goat. I don’t want my children to wear masks in school, never have.

If your only concern about kids welfare and education in this pandemic is loudly voiced when it's part of an argument to reduce mitigation measures, then that's who I'm talking about.

Who do you think these people are? How do you know when and where people voice their concerns about kids welfare?

No definitely was worried about it in the autumn too.

Tbh noble I think people just cba to argue with you, you’re totally dogmatic and it’s pointless.

‘Mitigation’ presumably meant part time schooling. Bit like we have anyway really right now.

@shetlandponies 💯

I have been against isolating close contacts, particularly children, and anti lockdown from day 1. I don’t think it’s the case that people who care about children missing school and being stuck at home now didn’t care in November though the vaccination programme might have changed whether they think it is justified.

In terms of whether the concern is fake how can you possibly know? I could just as easily say that people who support lockdowns are only pretending to care about vulnerable people and are actually just scared for themselves. But I have no idea if that’s the case and in reality there’s probably a mixture.

Some people are anti-lockdown or anti some aspects of lockdown precisely because of the way children have been treated.

I have always cared about children and particularly education but I maybe talk about it more now because I really believe that this is the worst thing we have ever done to children as a group in the UK in recent history and think it is completely unjustified and a breach of their rights to an education and not to be imprisoned. I think there’s a tendency in the pro lockdown camp to downplay the damage done to children and talk a lot about resilience and how if we just tell children it’s all ok there won’t be a problem.

I’m not exactly sure what the OPs agenda is but answering the question at face value, the most anti lockdown people I’ve met have always been very focused and clear sighted on the detrimental effects of lockdown on children.

They campaigned to reopen playgrounds last spring, and for them to stay open over the second wave in winter. They were horrified at the effects closing schools last year had on vulnerable kids, poor kids, those in inadequate housing etc. They were rightly worried that school lockdowns would massively exacerbate inequality, and severely impact the life chances of so many children etc etc.

Considering it’s now July and all restrictions are about to be dropped in a few weeks, I think OP just wants a little rant. What else is to be achieved now?

I think we can all agree that the current restrictions are disproportionately and unfairly impacting children (and mothers). We can’t go back in time and get the government to hand over the millions it spent on t&t on ventilation in schools. It was never going to happen. They were never going to invest.

Oh c’mon lockdown and school closures had no impact because children are resilient ah hang on:

A systematic review into the impact of school closures includes UK data on more than 2,000 young people questioned in depth about their feelings and experiences.

The research shows that 53 per cent of girls and 44 per cent of boys aged 13 to 18 were found to be suffering from trauma or PTSD in the months after the first lockdown. Sixty per cent of boys and 50 per cent of girls of the same age were classed as suffering from anxiety.

The Royal College of Psychiatrists said the Covid pandemic had caused a mental health crisis among children, with school closures having had a "devastating" impact. Psychologists said they had seen a 50 per cent rise in children and teenagers showing signs of agoraphobia following repeated lockdowns.

Tbh noble I think people just cba to argue with you, you’re totally dogmatic and it’s pointless.

Spot on

The only faux concern about children throughout all of this has been from you with your constant posts, where you basically were concerned for yourself before any of the children you claim to care about