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Anti-lockdowners pretending to care about kids again

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 29/06/2021 17:11

So it's all over the news about how nearly 400,000 kids are having to isolate because of covid cases in schools. Complaints about how disruptive to education it is and to the mental health of the children involved. This disruptive isolation must end as soon as possible.

Contrast to last November when nearly a million kids were self-isolating in a week. Do you remember the headlines, discussions and outrage about that?

No, of course you don't. Because back then, the solution to so many kids isolating was to put more mitigation measures in schools and attempt to stop so many kids catching it.

Now they can argue that it doesn't matter if all kids catch it, they're all over the 'terrible' isolation figures which are less than half of those last year.

I'm SO done with people only caring about kids and education when they think that they can use them for their own benefit.

If these loud voices could be used to talk about things like the cuts to pupil premium, the pitiful covid catch-up funding, the critical shortage of teachers, the unsafe state of schools, the massive waiting lists for CAMHS and SEN services, then maybe I'd believe them when they claim to care about children.

OP posts:
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7
Bryonyshcmyony · 03/07/2021 18:53

@cornflowersandpoppies

It’s not a discussion of ideas, though. It’s an insistence that you have to follow one very particular set of views or you are stupid and probably paid to post here. That isn’t a discussion.
Yes! Also a particular set of views that are almost impossible to decipher.
Chillychangchoo · 03/07/2021 19:03

@ChloeDecker

Yes I understand that. Mine have been in and out like yo yos though since the start of the academic year. The surrounding schools in the same area have had less absences. I don’t believe our school was hit worse, but I do believe staff requested PCRs more often. I guess depending on where you sit on the spectrum this could be seen as sensible, but coupled with how restrictive the school already is, my kids have basically had a very shit year in comparison to others.

I think it all just came to a head last week when my son was literally chased down the path because he had bought some haribos into school for his birthday.

Okay, go with the guidance and the important stuff but for the love of god…. a couple of sweets.

I’ve lost the will to live 🤦‍♀️

Chillychangchoo · 03/07/2021 19:14

I had asked if my son could come out of school at the same time as his sister in the winter due to his asthma (standing around in the cold for 30 minutes waiting for her wasn’t ideal). My request was refused. So I guess we had a lot of restrictions within the school (and smaller bubbles too then most primaries) but yet we still seemed to get hammered by covid, so in my mind the upheaval and disruption seemed very unnecessary, which I guess has clouded my view.

TeddingtonTrashbag · 03/07/2021 19:29

These ‘mitigations’ are utterly pointless. It’s obvious that schools reflect the infections in their communities.

AfternoonToffee · 03/07/2021 19:48

Yes I understand that. Mine have been in and out like yo yos though since the start of the academic year. The surrounding schools in the same area have had less absences. I don’t believe our school was hit worse, but I do believe staff requested PCRs more often. I guess depending on where you sit on the spectrum this could be seen as sensible, but coupled with how restrictive the school already is, my kids have basically had a very shit year in comparison to others.

I have 3 DC at two different schools. (Secondary and primary) Until the last three weeks none of them had been sent home, until ds got sent home twice in quick succession.

There is another secondary school just across the road and down a bit, very similar make up of catchment area, and school size. Both relatively new build schools. The other school was constantly out last year and have been recently too, yet my secondary largely unaffected. It's a strange old thing.

Chillychangchoo · 03/07/2021 19:55

@AfternoonToffee

Our head regularly phones parents to pick kids up for PCR tests. Mine have had a few for hayfever and other ailments (all negative). I do believe we were simply picking up more because we tested more. If you refused a test I was under the impression you weren’t allowed to have your child back on site (although someone on here did correct me, in that they can’t force kids to test but the child would have had to remain at home if you refused).

BustopherPonsonbyJones · 03/07/2021 19:55

I disagree @Chillychangchoo. From my point of view, the OP discusses the reality of schools (and clearly works in one). Some of you are only seeing it from how you are impacted and not the bigger picture. Do we really need to be so unpleasant to one another? We can discuss differences in opinion without making personal attacks.

At the moment, we are all trying to get through the day. It’s been a crap 18 months.

herecomesthsun · 03/07/2021 20:18

@TeddingtonTrashbag

These ‘mitigations’ are utterly pointless. It’s obvious that schools reflect the infections in their communities.
No they aren't and no it isn't.

The mitigations are recommended by the WHO after a great deal of scientific discussion (we could discuss each one in detail if you like, but masks have been well dealt with on this thread already.)

Schools are a major contributor to infection rates (also previously discussed) and will become more significant as almost everyone other than children gets double vaccinated.

herecomesthsun · 03/07/2021 20:21

That is to say, the general concept of mitigations, including ones like increased ventilation and proper use of small bubbles, is related to those recommended by the WHO. We haven't really funded or implemented a lot of that properly.

Ifitquacks · 03/07/2021 20:29

The thing is, people say ‘government need to fund smaller class sizes’. But how, in reality? Where do we these extra rooms and extra teachers? It’s pie in the sky. Unless we’re talking about part time school?
Our large village has one community centre and one church hall. The community centre is being used for vaccinations. The village hall has been closed since last Feb as they’re using the time for refurbishment. Where is this extra space coming from? I’d live smaller class sizes, but to provide them in 15 months without sending children to school part time is an impossible task.
Same with extra ventilation. snappy sound bite, isn’t it? In reality a large number of schools don’t have the electricity supply to accommodate ventilation in every room. Increasing electricity supply is a long term thing. Most ventilation systems have absolutely zero proof that they work against viruses. They won’t even claim to. Portacabins? Usually about an 18 month waiting list to get one built and delivered. I work in this area.
So asking for these measures to be introduced to keep schools open was basically asking to close schools.

BustopherPonsonbyJones · 03/07/2021 20:39

It doesn’t have to be pie in the sky if we really value education. Start making the changes now because if we don’t, there is a reasonable chance we will be up shit creek again if the virus mutates and the vaccines are no longer effective. If we can fund furlough for 18 months and schemes like eat out to help out, we can certainly pay for measures in school so staff can work safely and children can be educated.

Ifitquacks · 03/07/2021 20:50

@BustopherPonsonbyJones

It doesn’t have to be pie in the sky if we really value education. Start making the changes now because if we don’t, there is a reasonable chance we will be up shit creek again if the virus mutates and the vaccines are no longer effective. If we can fund furlough for 18 months and schemes like eat out to help out, we can certainly pay for measures in school so staff can work safely and children can be educated.
I value education. But whatever money was thrown at the problem, increasing electricity supply and fitting ventilation systems (which don’t claim to work against viruses, it’s an impossible claim to make) is not a 15 month job. It’s just not. I wish it was... I work in this area and it would make my life easier if it was. But they could have thrown £300bn at it and it still couldn’t have happened logistically. So that leaves us wish masks, which as far as I’m aware was implemented in most secondaries?
Ifitquacks · 03/07/2021 20:50

*with

UsedUpUsername · 03/07/2021 21:19

@ChloeDecker @herecomesthsun

You linked a bunch of studies that use models (not convincing) and even one that mentioned droplets (when we know it spreads via aerosols).

You can’t find one RCT study because it doesn’t exist. At least, not one that supports masking.

herecomesthsun · 03/07/2021 21:34

[quote UsedUpUsername]**@ChloeDecker* @herecomesthsun*

You linked a bunch of studies that use models (not convincing) and even one that mentioned droplets (when we know it spreads via aerosols).

You can’t find one RCT study because it doesn’t exist. At least, not one that supports masking.[/quote]
I don't think RCT studies exist to support either side of the argument.

There would be ethical issues around procedures which might infect people with covid, which would seem the logical scientific way of setting up a RCT.

Hard to get that through an ethical committee.

The evidence that we have supports mask wearing, hence the WHO and CDC support for this.

I just googled this and here are some articles that popped up that explain this at more length

www.politifact.com/article/2021/mar/12/why-randomized-controlled-trials-mask-wearing-and-/

www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/87870

noblegiraffe · 04/07/2021 07:49

God you lot love talking about me don't you?

a particular set of views that are almost impossible to decipher.

Maybe that's a problem with your reading comprehension? It is weird that it's only people who really don't like me who have an issue trying to understand what I'm saying though. I should add it to the list.
14) I don't understand what you're trying to say even though you have laid it out clearly and comprehensively enough for everyone else to understand.

My feeling always was that she wanted parents to pull their children out of schools so they closed due to parent pressure rather than teacher / union pressure. The mitigations that were talked about were never going to happen, so the only thing left was to close schools.

Your feeling? Grin Wow. You won't be able to find a single thing to back that up then of course.

So asking for these measures to be introduced to keep schools open was basically asking to close schools.

Looking back at the email to my MP from the start of this thread, here was what I suggested:

"Please could you raise with your colleague Gavin Williamson, and the DfE as a matter of urgency the issue of inadequate mitigation measures in secondary schools which is leading to uncontrolled transmission of covid, and nearly a million students out of school?

The use of masks in classrooms is currently 'to be avoided' in the school guidance, due to potential effects on teaching and learning. This should now be balanced against the huge disruption to teaching and learning due to pupils and teachers being unable to attend school.

Mass testing in schools should be a priority. We know that children are more likely to be asymptomatic or have symptoms which do not currently trigger a test. As a result they are in school spreading covid, which will then affect teachers and be taken back to the community. Instead of isolating only close contacts the entire bubble should be tested when there is a positive case to identify all infected pupils.

Funding should be given to schools to improve ventilation in classrooms, as has been done in other countries.

The position of clinically extremely vulnerable teachers and children, and those who have vulnerable members of their household should be reconsidered. Forcing them to work or study in an environment which is obviously not safe after lockdown is completely unacceptable, and I note that you and your colleagues are not expected to put yourselves and your families at risk in this way."

Yeah, outrageously out there isn't it, and deserving of derision and abuse? Except masks were implemented, they are now asking bubbles to get PCR tests in delta areas, and CEV pupils and staff were told to stay off school.

More funding for ventilation doesn't mean knocking down walls and has been done in other countries. In some cases it could be as simple as fixing windows that don't open. In a couple of my classrooms it would be fixing blinds that don't open. As previously discussed, other countries are buying air filtration units.

Lack of mitigation measures closed schools. People were wrong to deny they were needed and they were wrong to suggest they were impossible.

OP posts:
Whatever9999 · 04/07/2021 07:55

[quote Chillychangchoo]@ChloeDecker

Yes the school is very extra. I know all schools have to follow the rules and the guidance set but honestly….it’s just a bit too much. For a whole year now the school newsletter has simply just been a covid update. It would also be quite nice to read about the learning topics the children have been participating in, but it’s all covid, covid, covid and I’m 99 percent sure no one even bothers to open the email anymore.

Do other schools have normal newsletters with news on that is not related to covid?[/quote]
Our school has a newsletter and it never mentions covid. It only mentions what the children have been up to.
Anything covid related (which is honestly very little) comes in a separate email.
Also the children have been bringing books home since September. They're allowed to take packets of sweets/wrapped lollies in to share on their birthday. School has made life as normal as possible within the guidance.

Bryonyshcmyony · 04/07/2021 07:56

Yes noble, you are right. You were completely right. We were all wrong. You were right all last year. Well done you.

TeddingtonTrashbag · 04/07/2021 08:02

Some of you are only seeing it from how you are impacted and not the bigger picture. Do we really need to be so unpleasant to one another? We can discuss differences in opinion without making personal attacks
Those banging in still about last November and ‘mitigations’ in school show a complete lack of understanding of the downsides of the current ‘mitigations’ and lack of understanding of the impracticality of the ones you think should be implemented.
And as to personal attacks - lots of vitriol on here directed at UFT for anyone suspected of being UFT (and anyone who disagrees with the OP is accused of that).

cornflowersandpoppies · 04/07/2021 08:08

I don’t think there’s anything in that I disagree with, giraffe. It’s a good letter.

But look at your post overall and not the letter as such. And then the posts across the thread as a whole. They’ve all just been cruising around other peoples posts desperately looking for an attack. And in a fairly aggressive manner you dismiss the struggles people have had over the past eighteen months and their very real worries about their children.

Ruminating over the past is often a sign that there’s something unresolved there, and I’m not having a go there. I am the worlds worst for dwelling on ds birth and how things didn’t go to plan in the weeks afterwards (understatement.)

And I think that when you feel let down it’s the easiest thing in the world to come back with anger. And telling people how they are wrong, both about what you think and about stats or whatever, can feel like it releases some of that tension and annoyance.

But it isn’t going to change anything. I agree that there have been some pretty unpleasant personal attacks but you dish it out as well as being on the receiving end. I also think the aggressive and combative nature of the posts have the potential to attract a lot of trolls and mean genuine posters who might mostly be in support of you but perhaps differ in their views on some things are put off responding.

noblegiraffe · 04/07/2021 08:20

Back to it being the tone of my posts that are the problem. Plus patronising amateur psychology by someone who doesn't have the first clue about me. Awesome.

I have 'dished out' nothing like I have received... there are so many teachers who do not post outside the staffroom anymore because they cannot deal with the abuse it attracts. Anyone who posts about covid in schools gets attacked, it's certainly not about asking for it.

OP posts:
AfternoonToffee · 04/07/2021 08:23

I should have learnt that there was no point in engaging.

CallmeHendricks · 04/07/2021 08:27

@Bryonyshcmyony

Yes noble, you are right. You were completely right. We were all wrong. You were right all last year. Well done you.
Is that the best you've got?
noblegiraffe · 04/07/2021 08:27

By 'engaging' you mean telling me that you had a 'feeling' that I wanted to close schools by asking for improved mitigation measures.

But of course it's me that's the problem. Hmm

OP posts:
cornflowersandpoppies · 04/07/2021 08:29

See above. It’s a fight with two ‘sides’ and it’s ridiculous.

Swipe left for the next trending thread