Anti-lockdowners pretending to care about kids again

[noblegiraffe]

So it's all over the news about how nearly 400,000 kids are having to isolate because of covid cases in schools. Complaints about how disruptive to education it is and to the mental health of the children involved. This disruptive isolation must end as soon as possible.

Contrast to last November when nearly a million kids were self-isolating in a week. Do you remember the headlines, discussions and outrage about that?

No, of course you don't. Because back then, the solution to so many kids isolating was to put more mitigation measures in schools and attempt to stop so many kids catching it.

Now they can argue that it doesn't matter if all kids catch it, they're all over the 'terrible' isolation figures which are less than half of those last year.

I'm SO done with people only caring about kids and education when they think that they can use them for their own benefit.

If these loud voices could be used to talk about things like the cuts to pupil premium, the pitiful covid catch-up funding, the critical shortage of teachers, the unsafe state of schools, the massive waiting lists for CAMHS and SEN services, then maybe I'd believe them when they claim to care about children.

The full reopening of schools in September 2020 was associated with an increase in COVID-19 cases and outbreaks in educational settings across England

That statement in no way says transmission in schools was a major driver of the second wave.

So after restrictions lift for adults on the 19th July you would like mask wearing to continue in schools until when? And other restrictions? How long would you like these to carry on for?

@mrshoho 12 million children are not going to all get Covid at the same time. Many have already had it. We have a huge proportion of the adult population vaccinated so less opportunities for the virus to spread in the community. Covid will always be around. So the debate now probably needs to move on to ‘do we vaccinate healthy children who are, on the whole at little risk?’ and this is what the current thinking is. That the risk/benefit doesn’t stack up for vaccinations. For non CEV kids anyway.

So then what? There will always be Covid and children will be at risk. I don’t think it’s a huge risk personally and I’d be more worried about other illnesses. Think we’ve lost perspective here a little.

Which is understandable when you have vulnerable teachers posting.

yeah, a few months ago, like I said, the science didn't change meanwhile

Some people may have thought it was “too early” to tell whether covid is seasonal in October, that was 9 months ago. There is strong evidence now that it is seasonal and that view is widely accepted amongst scientists. It’s also logical - it’s a respiratory virus which tend to be worse/ more common in the winter.

Anyway this conversation about seasonality is besides the point.

@herecomesthsun

" people hear you saying schools shouldn't be open unless they can do these completely unfeasible things"

Wearing masks.

Perfectly feasible.

Costs very little and wearing the ones we already have costs nothing.

My son still does.

There you are.

All you need is a can do attitude (unless there is a genuine medical disability etc etc)

It’s not feasible because they don’t work. Not even a little because we know COVID is spread via aerosols and not droplets.

That is unless kids are wearing professionally fitted N95s (which they don’t and likely can’t tolerate).

Even then, we don’t know how N95s will perform, given that they are intended to be used in industrial settings involving particles far larger than viruses. But they will offer a higher level of protection than a surgical mask, which offers none.

*somewhat besides the point.

@Bizawit

The full reopening of schools in September 2020 was associated with an increase in COVID-19 cases and outbreaks in educational settings across England

That statement in no way says transmission in schools was a major driver of the second wave.

There has been a lot of discussion as to whether schools are "the" driver of covid.

That is a bit irrelevant.

They are "a" significant driver - see the article linked. I'll ignore the bit about the second wave because I wasn't specifically discussing that.

i.e. having children just attending school is associated with an increase in transmission

And if schools continue as they are, with pupils unvaccinated, they will become increasingly important as a factor in transmission.

Can you not agree with that?

@UsedUpUsername

re effectiveness of masks

I'm entirely happy to side with the WHO on this
www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks

JAMA jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2776536

metanalysis eurjmedres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40001-020-00475-6
"This study aimed to investigate the airborne transmission of COVID-19 and the role of face mask to prevent it....
In conclusion, this meta-analysis suggests that there is association between face mask use and reduction of COVID-19. Based on the recent publications, we must consider the likelihood of airborne transmission of COVID-19. It is rational to recommend using face masks as an acceptable advice for general population. Of course, it needs more experiments to confirm SARS-CoV-2 airborne transmission.!

It’s not feasible because they don’t work. Not even a little because we know COVID is spread via aerosols and not droplets.

Studies from the last month or two that confirm masks help stop the spread of Covid19, even with smaller aerosols (which are still droplets)
Read the studies-they even address the N45 masks and other masks worn by most people and still conclude they reduce transmission by 25%

www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/masking-science-sars-cov2.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fmore%2Fmasking-science-sars-cov2.html

science.sciencemag.org/content/372/6549/1439

www.mpg.de/16926779/face-masks-sarscov2-transmission

scitechdaily.com/new-research-shows-face-masks-effectively-limit-covid-19-transmission/

www.bristol.ac.uk/news/2021/june/covid19-maskwearing.html

So you all want children to continue wearing masks when other restrictions on society have gone?

You can post as many articles as you like but we
are moving on as a country to the next stage of living with Covid. Yet you want the restrictions on children to continue? Why?

@Delatron

So you all want children to continue wearing masks when other restrictions on society have gone?

You can post as many articles as you like but we
are moving on as a country to the next stage of living with Covid. Yet you want the restrictions on children to continue? Why?

I have said nothing of the sort regarding pupils and masks on this thread (in my school they currently don’t wear masks and haven’t since 17th May as per govt guidance) but I will post evidence on a debate thread when someone makes unsubstantiated comments such as It’s not feasible because they don’t work. Not even a little because we know COVID is spread via aerosols and not droplets.

It’s such a pointless discussion this. You’re arguing about the past. But carry on.

Looking forward to all restrictions being dropped and children actually having some fun again.

It’s such a pointless discussion this.

You don’t have to keep participating.

You’re arguing about the past.

Pretty sure this threads refers to the current isolations and cases in schools.

What do you all want though? Masks and isolations to continue?

I think masks should resume till the end of term,hopefully to help kids get back to school and see their mates again before the holidays.

We need to plan for an autumn and winter where there may bea lot of covid and also other respiratory illnesses.

Masks might be part of that.

Better testing (?saliva) might also help.

Isolations of children with infections are going to be necessary.

I'm not sure what should happen with bubbles. Ideally, children would be in groups of 10-15, not 100-300. Without a lot more planning and funding, that wouldn't be possible.

I think children with medical conditions should be offered vaccination, I guess there are advantages in watching what happens in the US and Israel with this, but there are also disadvantages to waiting.

Me personally? I would like to have better ventilation in my classrooms with no windows using ventilation units, I would like better support (financial and welfare) for parents who are affected by a positive case and I would like teachers to be part of the list for getting boosters this autumn if applicable. I would like people to acknowledge most schools are not safe for all in their current guise. I would like the Department for Education to release guidance for September before term ends and for decisions to be made for exam classes next year, in good time.

I don’t want to be told I’m lazy and want schools closed. I don’t want to be blamed for the government’s failings.

What I don't understand is the messages from our government and public health England that now more than ever it is important that we all follow hands, face, space, fresh air, test, vaccinate. Yet on the magical date of 19th this is all supposed to end? And people on here believe this is definitely going to happen? I can't see it myself.

Define safe though? This is the issue. Schools and therefore children in them will always be susceptible to Covid unless we vaccinate all children. I don’t deem a school with zero mitigations currently as ‘unsafe’. I feel my children are safe and I’m sure vaccinated teachers are too.

Therefore I don’t agree with masks and harmful isolations going forward. Especially not for autumn. Nor bubbles.

I would like all restrictions on children dropped now. They’ve sacrificed enough and we have a good vaccination program.

Ventilation systems would be nice. Just on general health grounds though.

[quote Bizawit]@herecomesthsun yeh so maybe they were badly done or you thought there should have been more/ different measures, but it’s absolute false / a bare faced falsehood to say “there were no mitigation measures”.[/quote]
the Government paid for no measures.

fact

Define safe though? This is the issue.

Who said ‘safe’, please, in the last few posts? Who is this in response to?

Oh I see, my point ‘in their current guise’. So you agree they are not safe ‘in their current guise’ based on what you have said.

Oh and just to say (sorry for multiple posts) that the ‘schools are safe’ mantra since last Sept from the government is what I was referring to. But I’m sure the parents who currently have children with Covid at home and comforted by that slogan.

@Delatron

Couldn’t agree more. The government are not going to pay for ventilation either. They will not even pay for pencils. We as parents know that.

We have to accept it.

They need to go to school in exactly the same way as 2019, and quickly. We don’t need to pretend the pandemic never happened, it did but we now have an effective vaccination programme to enable life to now return to normal.

Some people are going to hugely struggle with this mindset with their incessant stamping of feet and refusal to accept it’s time to move on.

They need to go to school in exactly the same way as 2019, and quickly. We don’t need to pretend the pandemic never happened, it did but we now have an effective vaccination programme to enable life to now return to normal. Some people are going to hugely struggle with this mindset with their incessant stamping of feet and refusal to accept it’s time to move on.
Yes to the foot stamping brigade.
With any luck we’ll have normal school in September and children can have the decent learning experience they deserve without ridiculous ‘mitigations’ that are utterly pointless.

@mrshoho

Ooo I dunno….because people keep voting for numpties so we have to just accept the scraps of education that our kids are given? Because some of us understand that writing pointless letters to unsympathetic MPs is an utter waste of time and energy?

Fuck me anything’s better than the current “hardly in school/let’s have some more mitigations” brigade. Odd indeed.