Anti-lockdowners pretending to care about kids again

[noblegiraffe]

So it's all over the news about how nearly 400,000 kids are having to isolate because of covid cases in schools. Complaints about how disruptive to education it is and to the mental health of the children involved. This disruptive isolation must end as soon as possible.

Contrast to last November when nearly a million kids were self-isolating in a week. Do you remember the headlines, discussions and outrage about that?

No, of course you don't. Because back then, the solution to so many kids isolating was to put more mitigation measures in schools and attempt to stop so many kids catching it.

Now they can argue that it doesn't matter if all kids catch it, they're all over the 'terrible' isolation figures which are less than half of those last year.

I'm SO done with people only caring about kids and education when they think that they can use them for their own benefit.

If these loud voices could be used to talk about things like the cuts to pupil premium, the pitiful covid catch-up funding, the critical shortage of teachers, the unsafe state of schools, the massive waiting lists for CAMHS and SEN services, then maybe I'd believe them when they claim to care about children.

That’s not quite what I meant to be honest herecomesthesun but there’s not necessarily much any of us can do assuming no one works for the government.

Maybe things will get back to normal. I hope so.

Or they won’t. But if they don’t the responsibility for that doesn’t lie at my door.

Us4Them might have believed they were helping children but their actions have contributed to the situation we find ourselves in today with bubbles popping and children isolating. They did not consider the long term and refused to listen to those who did.

We had no mitigation measures in schools between Sept-Dec and it ended in disaster as due to a spiralling infection rate in children and a spiralling death rate in adults, there was no possible way to justify keeping them open during the third lockdown and so they closed from Jan to March

Huh?? I thought there were bubbles, social distancing , rules about pick up /
Drop off / isolations/ track and trace and all sorts. Wasn’t there extensive guidance when schools restarted in Sept pertaining to covid measures??

And the spiralling and death rate wasn’t all about transmission in schools!! In fact, the situation was worst in Jan when schools were completely shut. You have no evidence whatsoever to say exactly the same wouldn’t have happened if schools had been closed/
Had other measures in place. This is a contagious/ seasonal virus.

*spiralling infection and death rate

@Bizawit

We had no mitigation measures in schools between Sept-Dec and it ended in disaster as due to a spiralling infection rate in children and a spiralling death rate in adults, there was no possible way to justify keeping them open during the third lockdown and so they closed from Jan to March

Huh?? I thought there were bubbles, social distancing , rules about pick up /
Drop off / isolations/ track and trace and all sorts. Wasn’t there extensive guidance when schools restarted in Sept pertaining to covid measures??

Yes, we had masks too. One teacher in full PPE.

One teacher in full PPE

Good lord. Were they CEV or just a bit nuts?

Ha, so therefore you are justified in now setting up a thread that was just an unexamined , ad hominem attack/ moan about people who disagree with you?
Indeed.

blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/06/11/covid-19-and-the-delta-variant-we-need-an-urgent-focus-on-mitigations-in-schools/

The last paragraph summarising is spot on with the government continuing to ignore schools when it comes to their recommendations to everyone.

"Whilst vaccines provide excellent protection, they do not provide total protection, so it is still as important as ever that we continue to exercise caution. Protect yourself and the people around you by working from home where possible, and by practising ‘hands, face, space, fresh air’ at all times." from Dr Jenny Harries recently. Confusing as they actively removed the face masks from secondary schools and did nothing to address the space and fresh air in schools?

@Bizawit

We had no mitigation measures in schools between Sept-Dec and it ended in disaster as due to a spiralling infection rate in children and a spiralling death rate in adults, there was no possible way to justify keeping them open during the third lockdown and so they closed from Jan to March

Huh?? I thought there were bubbles, social distancing , rules about pick up /
Drop off / isolations/ track and trace and all sorts. Wasn’t there extensive guidance when schools restarted in Sept pertaining to covid measures??

bubbles were by necessity very large (as we have large classes crammed together in small buildings in the UK) and were operating randomly with weird advice given by PHE. The WHO recommends very small bubbles. So we had and have bubbles, and they do work, but it would take a lot of expense and investment to organise this properly, The Italians spent billions of euros on building and staff to make this possible, we didn't spend anything.

Social distancing - this effectively isn't possible with over 30 people in a tiny classroom. Again, my DC's teachers really did their best with it.

Pick ups and drop offs - again variable what schools could put in place.

Isolating yes but very limited testing and confusing PHE guidance.

Guidance was issued on Bank Holiday weekends and Fridays often late at night or actually, in January, after term had started. There were days in the summer when up to 12 contradictory pieces of advice came out in 1 day. Our head said that the advice appeared to be written by people who had never set foot in a state secondary school.

The more effective measures of masks and also LFTs (not ideal but something) contributed to a successful return to school in March.

What a shame masks were stopped.

@Bizawit

One teacher in full PPE

Good lord. Were they CEV or just a bit nuts?

I don't know. She still wears a mask in lessons but not the visor and boiler suit thing. Presumably double vaccinated now also.

@TeddingtonTrashbag

Ha, so therefore you are justified in now setting up a thread that was just an unexamined , ad hominem attack/ moan about people who disagree with you? Indeed.

Well the information appears to be on noble's side, certainly a lot of unexamined moaning from her critics.

I'm actually not stupid, believe it or not, and I have never really understood what noble expects from posters on Mumsnet.

@herecomesthsun yeh so maybe they were badly done or you thought there should have been more/ different measures, but it’s absolute false / a bare faced falsehood to say “there were no mitigation measures”.

@Bizawit

And the spiralling and death rate wasn’t all about transmission in schools!! In fact, the situation was worst in Jan when schools were completely shut. You have no evidence whatsoever to say exactly the same wouldn’t have happened if schools had been closed/ Had other measures in place. This is a contagious/ seasonal virus.

the transmission in schools was an enormous part

schools weren't completely shut in Jan

there is a strong scientific consensus that the seasonal pattern hasn't developed yet as it's a new pathogen.

also noble was not in favour of closing schools, she wanted them to have more mitigations

I suppose if people hear you saying schools shouldn't be open unless they can do these completely unfeasible things, they could be forgiven for thinking then that poster must want to close schools if they can't meet her impossible standards.

the transmission in schools was an enormous part
there is a strong scientific consensus that the seasonal pattern hasn't developed yet as it's a new pathogen

Ok I fully disagree with both of these statements.

@Bryonyshcmyony

I suppose if people hear you saying schools shouldn't be open unless they can do these completely unfeasible things, they could be forgiven for thinking then that poster must want to close schools if they can't meet her impossible standards.

Indeed.

[quote Bizawit]@herecomesthsun yeh so maybe they were badly done or you thought there should have been more/ different measures, but it’s absolute false / a bare faced falsehood to say “there were no mitigation measures”.[/quote]
ok there were few and inadequate mitigation measures. especially compared to other countries, even ones in the developing world

the Government spent effectively nothing on making schools safer

the advice was ill thought out, ill timed and contradictory, also not possible to enact e.g. teachers physically unable to keep 2m from students and remain in the same classroom

better?

maybe we could say that "no mitigation measures were funded by the Government"

or

"the Government plans for mitigation were pitifully inadequate in the extreme"

as shorthand

" people hear you saying schools shouldn't be open unless they can do these completely unfeasible things"

Wearing masks.

Perfectly feasible.

Costs very little and wearing the ones we already have costs nothing.

My son still does.

There you are.

All you need is a can do attitude (unless there is a genuine medical disability etc etc)

Masks were in schools?

@Bizawit

*the transmission in schools was an enormous part there is a strong scientific consensus that the seasonal pattern hasn't developed yet as it's a new pathogen*

Ok I fully disagree with both of these statements.

"It’s too soon to say whether COVID is seasonal like the flu — but where clusters aren’t under control, infections will continue to swell."

from Nature Magazine (one of the most authoritative science madaxines) a few months back, article here

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02972-4

That article is from October 2020.

@Bizawit

*the transmission in schools was an enormous part there is a strong scientific consensus that the seasonal pattern hasn't developed yet as it's a new pathogen*

Ok I fully disagree with both of these statements.

1. Transmission in schools

"The full reopening of schools in September 2020 was associated with an increase in COVID-19 cases and outbreaks in educational settings across England."

From the Lancet (one of the most authoritative medical journals) 18 May 2021

www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00097-1/fulltext

I'm not sure how you can "fully" disagree with either of these quite qualified and well supported statements?

@Bizawit

That article is from October 2020.

yeah, a few months ago, like I said, the science didn't change meanwhile