Anti-lockdowners pretending to care about kids again

[noblegiraffe]

So it's all over the news about how nearly 400,000 kids are having to isolate because of covid cases in schools. Complaints about how disruptive to education it is and to the mental health of the children involved. This disruptive isolation must end as soon as possible.

Contrast to last November when nearly a million kids were self-isolating in a week. Do you remember the headlines, discussions and outrage about that?

No, of course you don't. Because back then, the solution to so many kids isolating was to put more mitigation measures in schools and attempt to stop so many kids catching it.

Now they can argue that it doesn't matter if all kids catch it, they're all over the 'terrible' isolation figures which are less than half of those last year.

I'm SO done with people only caring about kids and education when they think that they can use them for their own benefit.

If these loud voices could be used to talk about things like the cuts to pupil premium, the pitiful covid catch-up funding, the critical shortage of teachers, the unsafe state of schools, the massive waiting lists for CAMHS and SEN services, then maybe I'd believe them when they claim to care about children.

There was never "discussion" posters got fed up of constantly being told they were wrong, lying, a member of U4T, teacher hating or flower bombed.

Ha, so therefore you are justified in now setting up a thread that was just an unexamined , ad hominem attack/ moan about people who disagree with you?

No, it was a considered attack on people who bang on about how much they care about kids but are notably absent from any conversations about kids unless it suits their aim of removing covid measures.

What I note on this thread despite the protestations, is an entire lack of evidence provided of U4T caring about kids in a non anti-lockdown way.

Prove that it’s about the kids and not about being anti-lockdown.

@Bizawit

Oh and stop playing the victim 🙄

Is pointing out that people tried to hound me off MN for posting graphs and data showing a spiralling infection rate in schools ‘playing the victim’?

Interesting.

Of course he matters.

For most people though, their own children will be the ones they are concerned about.

What I note on this thread despite the protestations, is an entire lack of evidence provided of U4T caring about kids in a non anti-lockdown way.

Who are you talking to here? Are you still presuming that everyone who disagrees slightly with you is a U4T core member? If you want that answer go and ask it on the FB group.

If U4T care about kids they should be campaigning for the £15 billion catch up funding recommended by Kevan Collins.

They really are just an anti-lockdown front.

@AfternoonToffee

What I note on this thread despite the protestations, is an entire lack of evidence provided of U4T caring about kids in a non anti-lockdown way.

Who are you talking to here? Are you still presuming that everyone who disagrees slightly with you is a U4T core member? If you want that answer go and ask it on the FB group.

She is expressing a very reasonable opinion in a discussion forum.

@Getawaywithit

One of my children is also vulnerable to covid. His asthma is severe. Admittedly there are children who are worse off but it’s not unusual for him to have at least one hospital stay each winter. This was pre covid. I didn’t expect mitigations back then, so I don’t now. Particularly when for the large majority of children it is incredibly low risk. And that’s where we are at here, it’s a numbers game. Trying to effect the least amount of children detrimentally. As with all things in the public health sphere and with such a huge population you cannot mitigate the risk for absolutely everybody. You have to roll with the majority. I never expected his class to isolate when a “nasty cough” did the rounds. However unpleasant it is to have a child more vulnerable I can only imagine how entitled that would have been for us to expect that.

Measures such as masks are pointless in the real
world with teenagers. They absolutely do not wear them properly (so the efficacy is much reduced), and they are another barrier to learning.

@AfternoonToffee

There was never "discussion" posters got fed up of constantly being told they were wrong, lying, a member of U4T, teacher hating or flower bombed.

to be honest, a lot of teacher hating has gone on here. Just awful.

I don't understand the problem with people using flowers in their posts.

My child is vulnerable to covid. When you talk about 'vulnerable children' why is it he doesn't matter? Did you give a toss about all vulnerable children prior to covid? What did you do to support such children prior to covid.

I’m very sorry to hear that your child is vulnerable to covid. Risk of serious harm and death to children, even CEV children is vanishingly rare, and significantly less than many other common causes of illness, death and injury to children. Of course that doesn’t mean your child doesn’t deserve individual care and protection tailored to their rare but important needs.
Of course “vulnerable” is a general term and there are lots of different types of vulnerability, I was thinking mostly in terms of socio-demographic factors, and children in need of care and protection. Which make up the vast majority of vulnerable children.
I have worked my whole adult life for various children’s charities supporting vulnerable and at risk groups of children. What about you?

[quote Chillychangchoo]@Getawaywithit

One of my children is also vulnerable to covid. His asthma is severe. Admittedly there are children who are worse off but it’s not unusual for him to have at least one hospital stay each winter. This was pre covid. I didn’t expect mitigations back then, so I don’t now. Particularly when for the large majority of children it is incredibly low risk. And that’s where we are at here, it’s a numbers game. Trying to effect the least amount of children detrimentally. As with all things in the public health sphere and with such a huge population you cannot mitigate the risk for absolutely everybody. You have to roll with the majority. I never expected his class to isolate when a “nasty cough” did the rounds. However unpleasant it is to have a child more vulnerable I can only imagine how entitled that would have been for us to expect that.

Measures such as masks are pointless in the real
world with teenagers. They absolutely do not wear them properly (so the efficacy is much reduced), and they are another barrier to learning.[/quote]
Masks aren't pointless if they help reduce infections in the one unvaccinated group that are crowded together indoors.

What about you?

I teach. In one of the country's most deprived wards.

And thanks for just brushing over the vulnerability to covid thing yet again with 'it's really not an issue'. You're not a consultant qualified in my child's condition with access to his medical history.

@Getawaywithit

What about you?

I teach. In one of the country's most deprived wards.

And thanks for just brushing over the vulnerability to covid thing yet again with 'it's really not an issue'. You're not a consultant qualified in my child's condition with access to his medical history.

I didn’t brush it off at all , or even question your assertion that your DC is vulnerable to covid.

Who are you talking to here?

Bizawit. You can tell because I quoted her post in my reply.

You have to roll with the majority

the majority of children in this country are not deprived, nor at risk from being at home with their parents during lockdown. Yet we have had thread after thread in support of them.

The suggestion it is 'entitled' to want others to remember that not all of us have the same starting point and perhaps something simple like regular testing or mask wearing might help protect those who don't have that same advantage of 'good health' is beyond my understanding. We're supposed to be a civilised society. Part of being civilised is recognising that some people may need extra support to get to the same place as everyone else.

There are journalists dedicating time in uncovering and unravelling the associations and aims of these groups. I suppose one day there will be a dramatisation of the covid years. I wonder how Usforthem will feature.

@herecomesthsun

if they help reduce infections. And if they do, to what extent? Not worth the barrier to learning in my opinion. Not at this stage of the pandemic.

@Chillychangchoo
better than a closed school. In my opinion.

Airborne disease remember. It's not rocket science.

Prove that it’s about the kids and not about being anti-lockdown

You are still positioning these two things as incompatible/ mutually exclusive, and I still don’t understand why (unless it’s just a case of anti-lockdown=bad person in your mind) .
I have tried to point out that a person could be anti-lockdown (completely or partially) because they concerned about children, or, equally, they could be independently concerned about both issues.

Annnnyways I think we are going round in circles so that is the last time I will say that.

@Getawaywithit

Ahh but those children you speak of (the ones who are not deprived at home) their attainment gap is already miles ahead of the disadvantaged kids. So not really sure what you’re waffling about.

I guess it’s a cheap shot to call someone out for being uncivilised (even when they have a vulnerable kid physically) but the whole pandemic has to be balanced. It’s not entitled to understand that, it’s anything but.

the majority of children in this country are not deprived, nor at risk from being at home with their parents during lockdown

No. But these measures are still harmful to (non-deprived) children. It’s just that especially deprived children are hurt the most.

@Bizawit

Prove that it’s about the kids and not about being anti-lockdown

You are still positioning these two things as incompatible/ mutually exclusive, and I still don’t understand why (unless it’s just a case of anti-lockdown=bad person in your mind) .
I have tried to point out that a person could be anti-lockdown (completely or partially) because they concerned about children, or, equally, they could be independently concerned about both issues.

Annnnyways I think we are going round in circles so that is the last time I will say that.

supporting catch up funding = about the kids

working constructively to keep schools safe and therefore open = about the kids

attacking masks and teachers and schools = anti lockdown faction

U4T = looks like an anti lockdown faction, with some simpering parents fronting it

@herecomesthsun

Of course it’s airborne 🤣 which is why a crappy bit of material left down under your nose will not work. I mean kids are hardly trotting about in medical grade masks.

Not rocket science.

@JeanClaudeVanDammit

I’m seeing it the other way tbh.

People who desperately want lockdown to continue are now all “won’t somebody think of the children!” even though evidence of harm from infection (including Long Covid) is shaky at best, and there is no evidence being collected on the significant actual harms policies like isolation are causing. No one who really gives a shit about children wants policies like isolation to continue. (Before someone comes in with what above CEV, yes obviously they should be being prioritised for vaccination. There aren’t that many, they could be done in a week.)

Yep. This.

@Bizawit

Exactly. Those kids feel it more.