Anti-lockdowners pretending to care about kids again

[noblegiraffe]

So it's all over the news about how nearly 400,000 kids are having to isolate because of covid cases in schools. Complaints about how disruptive to education it is and to the mental health of the children involved. This disruptive isolation must end as soon as possible.

Contrast to last November when nearly a million kids were self-isolating in a week. Do you remember the headlines, discussions and outrage about that?

No, of course you don't. Because back then, the solution to so many kids isolating was to put more mitigation measures in schools and attempt to stop so many kids catching it.

Now they can argue that it doesn't matter if all kids catch it, they're all over the 'terrible' isolation figures which are less than half of those last year.

I'm SO done with people only caring about kids and education when they think that they can use them for their own benefit.

If these loud voices could be used to talk about things like the cuts to pupil premium, the pitiful covid catch-up funding, the critical shortage of teachers, the unsafe state of schools, the massive waiting lists for CAMHS and SEN services, then maybe I'd believe them when they claim to care about children.

Stop saying people are posting shit!

@Bryonyshcmyony

Stop saying people are posting shit!

But they are, they are claiming I have said things that I have not.

That is posting shit.

If you want me to stop saying it, then people posting shit and pretending I said it (which is something you are guilty of) needs to stop.

@ChloeDecker

They are contradictory in succeeding in keeping children physically in schools Bizawit, with these incompatible campaigns, over the past 9 months , is the point being made. And they never seem to campaign for measures to help children catch up more/receive Mental Health support. They always go quiet on that, which is contradictory to their claims.

The thing about ‘mental health’ really is a matter of what you understand that to mean.

Referring all our children to counselling isn’t realistic, and also doesn’t have proven efficacy....but getting children into school where they are interacting, playing, doing sports, learning, have some clear purpose....well, that is proven to support good mental health?

@ChloeDecker

They are contradictory in succeeding in keeping children physically in schools Bizawit, with these incompatible campaigns, over the past 9 months , is the point being made. And they never seem to campaign for measures to help children catch up more/receive Mental Health support. They always go quiet on that, which is contradictory to their claims.

Well thank you for at least spelling the point out clearly instead of just assuming that we all agree that anti-lockdown=reckless disregard for children.

Even so I don’t agree with your view that there was an inevitable choice between closing schools , or having all these other measures in place. Nor do these campaigning groups hold this view. They believe it would be better for children to scrap them all, and they don’t believe it would lead to an untenable situation in terms of infections. You can disagree of course -
Let’s debate those points with evidence and reason. But engaging in ad hominem attacks , calling them hypocritical and Insincere in their concerns for children is. unreasonable and unhelpful.

They were raising hell

They bloody weren't. They didn't want anyone to know about the impact the rising infection rate in schools was having on children's education. They wanted to pretend the situation in schools was fine.

When they talked about the impact of school closures on kids from Jan-March they never mentioned the impact of whole school closures due to spiralling infection rates from Sept-Dec, or the impact of kids having to isolate.

Because if they brought it up, someone would suggest mitigation measures in schools when they re-opened, and to U4T a mask is worse than the impact of rampant covid.

They believe it would be better for children to scrap them all, and they don’t believe it would lead to an untenable situation in terms of infections.

They turned out to be hideously wrong, didn't they?

Did masks in schools make much of a difference?

@ChloeDecker

They are contradictory in succeeding in keeping children physically in schools Bizawit, with these incompatible campaigns, over the past 9 months , is the point being made. And they never seem to campaign for measures to help children catch up more/receive Mental Health support. They always go quiet on that, which is contradictory to their claims.

They are a single issue pressure group, absolutely.

@noblegiraffe

They were raising hell

They bloody weren't. They didn't want anyone to know about the impact the rising infection rate in schools was having on children's education. They wanted to pretend the situation in schools was fine.

When they talked about the impact of school closures on kids from Jan-March they never mentioned the impact of whole school closures due to spiralling infection rates from Sept-Dec, or the impact of kids having to isolate.

Because if they brought it up, someone would suggest mitigation measures in schools when they re-opened, and to U4T a mask is worse than the impact of rampant covid.

Literally none of that is true

I suppose I should find out more about them as I was constantly accused of being one of them last year.

Oh look. School leaders have written to the government about the problems that their current incoherent approach to SI is causing and (again) their lack of planning for the next academic year.

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/jul/03/parents-angry-at-shifting-government-covid-messages-say-school-leaders?fbclid=IwAR2p6MdE-qtDIAM-sm539q1W_frof-0Kan9ondwC_6cO80h4gM5vCQcJiWQ

hamsterarse yes indeed those things do improve children's mental health. Hence, ensuring that schools were safer so that children didn't have to endure repeated SI and school closures would have been a better course of action than the shit storm that was last academic year, surely?

@Bryonyshcmyony

Did masks in schools make much of a difference?

None. Those masks provide no protection from aerosol transmission, it even says it on the label

@noblegiraffe

They were raising hell

They bloody weren't. They didn't want anyone to know about the impact the rising infection rate in schools was having on children's education. They wanted to pretend the situation in schools was fine.

When they talked about the impact of school closures on kids from Jan-March they never mentioned the impact of whole school closures due to spiralling infection rates from Sept-Dec, or the impact of kids having to isolate.

Because if they brought it up, someone would suggest mitigation measures in schools when they re-opened, and to U4T a mask is worse than the impact of rampant covid.

Omg you are not getting it at all.

They don’t agree with you that these mitigation measures are 1) necessary , 2) proportionate or 3) effective in preventing transmission in schools. They think they are wrong headed and harmful to children. All of them. Disagree with their perspectives based on reasoned arguments and evidence, don’t assume people share half of your opinions / assumptions and then call them hypocritical when they disagree with the rest!!

The group are fronted by a collection of middle class, privileged people in professions where the risk of covid was far lower than the majority of working parents. They have close links with hardline anti lockdown/restrictions of any kind groups and plenty of Conservative backbenchers. Wouldn't be surprised if the Sajid Javid is in there too. What these groups were calling for would have been disastrous and eventually even these privileged elites would have been affected in a country with out of control infections. They were not so vocal whilst the NHS was dealing with the second wave and we had so many seriously ill and dead people.

I don't doubt there were genuine concerned parents who joined with integrity as they wanted the best for their children. But the genuine, reasonable parents didn't hang around I would imagine.

Disagree with their perspectives based on reasoned arguments and evidence

I spent Sept-Dec posting graphs, numbers and reasoned evidence. And for that, people tried to hound me off MN.

Bizawit you need to provide evidence that lack of mitigation measures in schools didn't lead to spiralling infection rates that led to an untenable situation whereby schools had to close in Jan.

Good luck.

There are about forty zillion threads (many started by noble) giving reasoned arguments and evidence about why zero mitigation measures were a disaster for schools.

Alternative, cast your mind back over the last academic year and that should provide all the evidence that you need.

And I ask about masks having followed all the school's rules about kids wearing them by the way. I just see teens in filthy masks not worn over the nose!

@Bizawit

I agree. I don’t believe the mitigations are necessary, proportionate or indeed that effective.

Particularly now we have an effective vaccine. I mean let’s be honest, that was the game changer here.

This thread about Us4Them is interesting:

I joined the UsForThem Facebook group in its early days, having seen it advertised on here. I joined because I was concerned that schools weren't going to reopen after the summer holidays and our experience of lockdown learning provision was pretty woeful. However, I wanted schools to reopen in a safe way, whether that required PPE, rotas etc, whatever the experts feel would work best.

I tend to hide groups I join on Facebook to stop them clogging my main feed and then just check them occasionally. I've had a look at that group for the first time in months and they are unhinged! What I thought would be a campaign group to ensure the kids get an education has turned into a bunch of conspiracy nuts. Some gems from what I read this morning include:
"Scientists have proven that viruses are not contagious."
"We don't do any of this stuff for chicken pox."

Plus loads of anti vax stuff, loads of anti mask stuff, and a very weird conspiracy claiming that Matt Hancock is going to be arrested.

I can't decide if I should leave the group because I don't want to be associated with that crap, or stay in it for entertainment purposes.

Have I just checked in at a bad time? Or is that what the whole group is like now?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4080914-To-think-the-UsForThem-group-are-batshit

Masks were only ever going to have a significant impact if social distancing etc were implemented at the same time.

In the absence of any other mitigation measures, it would have been sensible to at least not declare them unnecessary as the government did.

@noblegiraffe

Disagree with their perspectives based on reasoned arguments and evidence

I spent Sept-Dec posting graphs, numbers and reasoned evidence. And for that, people tried to hound me off MN.

Bizawit you need to provide evidence that lack of mitigation measures in schools didn't lead to spiralling infection rates that led to an untenable situation whereby schools had to close in Jan.

Good luck.

Ha, so therefore you are justified in now setting up a thread that was just an unexamined , ad hominem attack/ moan about people who disagree with you?

Fine, but don’t expect not to get as good as you and give.

There is all kinds of evidence demonstrating 1) that schools- particularly primary schools - are not a major driver of transmission; 2) that covid is not especially dangerous or harmful to children 3) that closure of schools and other so called “mitigation measures” (which themselves are unproven in terms of their effectiveness) are harmful to the protection and wellbeing of children, especially vulnerable children.

*as good as you give

Oh and stop playing the victim 🙄

that closure of schools and other so called “mitigation measures” (which themselves are unproven in terms of their effectiveness) are harmful to the protection and wellbeing of children, especially vulnerable children

My child is vulnerable to covid. When you talk about 'vulnerable children' why is it he doesn't matter? Did you give a toss about all vulnerable children prior to covid? What did you do to support such children prior to covid?

I’m seeing it the other way tbh.

People who desperately want lockdown to continue are now all “won’t somebody think of the children!” even though evidence of harm from infection (including Long Covid) is shaky at best, and there is no evidence being collected on the significant actual harms policies like isolation are causing. No one who really gives a shit about children wants policies like isolation to continue. (Before someone comes in with what above CEV, yes obviously they should be being prioritised for vaccination. There aren’t that many, they could be done in a week.)