Anti-lockdowners pretending to care about kids again

[noblegiraffe]

So it's all over the news about how nearly 400,000 kids are having to isolate because of covid cases in schools. Complaints about how disruptive to education it is and to the mental health of the children involved. This disruptive isolation must end as soon as possible.

Contrast to last November when nearly a million kids were self-isolating in a week. Do you remember the headlines, discussions and outrage about that?

No, of course you don't. Because back then, the solution to so many kids isolating was to put more mitigation measures in schools and attempt to stop so many kids catching it.

Now they can argue that it doesn't matter if all kids catch it, they're all over the 'terrible' isolation figures which are less than half of those last year.

I'm SO done with people only caring about kids and education when they think that they can use them for their own benefit.

If these loud voices could be used to talk about things like the cuts to pupil premium, the pitiful covid catch-up funding, the critical shortage of teachers, the unsafe state of schools, the massive waiting lists for CAMHS and SEN services, then maybe I'd believe them when they claim to care about children.

@noblegiraffe

I meant they’re not a parent-run pressure group.

Regardless of who/what they are... the NEU failed in achieving any of its aims. Time to realise that just writing a letter doesn’t get anything done. I mean... I’m private sector but if I’d failed so spectacularly I’d be sacked.

Regardless of who/what they are

I think it’s pretty bloody important to wonder who/what they are and who is funding them.

@noblegiraffe

You’ve repeatedly refused to engage with explaining that

I haven't. I have repeatedly explained why I think they aren't concerned children and are just using them to argue against covid restrictions.

It's because that concern only manifests in very limited ways and evaporates as soon as the next mitigation measure row comes up.

So in conclusion your post is aimed at those who do care and will react under the pretext of aiming it at those who don't care

Who are they and who is funding them, then.

And why not just say who you think they are and who you think are funding them rather than hint darkly about it?

I’m lost.

@noblegiraffe

Regardless of who/what they are

I think it’s pretty bloody important to wonder who/what they are and who is funding them.

You’re entirely ignoring the point about the NEU being ineffective and unfit for purpose. They achieved nothing.

I linked to a whole article about it cornflower, do try reading it.

I’m not in the NEU 🤷‍♀️

So in conclusion your post is aimed at those who do care

No, it’s aimed at who I said it is.

@noblegiraffe

I’m not in the NEU 🤷‍♀️

So what? Irrelevant to my point. People on this thread are simultaneously accusing Us For Them of influencing government policy while saying the NEU has no power to influence government policy. So what use does the NEU (and other teaching unions) have? And Us For Them may be anti lockdown... they’re permitted to take that position. Are you pro lockdown, OP?

@StopCryingYourHeartOut

Does the OP genuinely think some posters are being paid to post dissenting ideas to them?

I think posters should maybe stop posting on this thread now. Reading through it and previous threads, this OP may be unwell.

She has stuck up for teachers and children right from the start of this, it's been a long fight for sure.

Noble, I am really grateful for your continued commitment to raising awareness on these issues and supporting kids and education.

I’m not surprised you are angry at the situation, not to mention the kind of posts you are having to deal with when you try to discuss it.

You have my support and admiration.

@noblegiraffe

I meant they’re not a parent-run pressure group.

Yes they are.

Have you ever considered the reason they've gained traction is because they're right?

How many lives have all the school restrictions, closures and isolations actually saved? We've no idea.

How much damage have the school policies done? A heartbreaking amount. 10 minutes of investigation will show children lost from education, suffering from mental health problems on an unimaginable scale, lonely, scared, stuck in abusive, neglectful and chaotic homes for months, so much lost potential and education.

Yet now we are all being vaccinated you still bang on about safety from Covid and claim if I don't share your single minded obsession I don't care. Well I think you know your conditions aren't easy or quick to implement. They're nigh on impossible unless you have a couple of decades and unlimited resources to rebuild schools. They amount to holding children hostage to your fears.

Have you ever considered the reason they've gained traction is because they're right?

No. You only have to have read their Twitter and Facebook groups since last August to see that they really really aren’t.

They would even write on their Facebook group that another Mumsnet thread was starting and it needed “a call to action”, hence lots of similarly named posters would always appear on those threads. Sometimes, MNHQ would ban the worst ones.

They are not even the biggest group currently by a long shot but they do have direct links to MPs, BBC, (read about Molly Kingsley the corporate lawyer who keeps threatening the govt with legal cases, the outrageous interviews with Dr Ros King “people who die from Covid are on there way out anyway” ) hence they have had a bigger voice.

In fact, they have links to the far right: Professor Alice Roberts first started a Twitter thread discussing this, linking to noble’s article earlier. Replies suggested that UsForThem aren’t a concerned parents’ group at all and are linked with a far right funded group Time for Recovery/Great Barrington Declaration etc.

The guardian even started to investigate them: www.theguardian.com/education/2021/jan/26/group-campaigning-for-uk-schools-to-reopen-wins-backing-of-17-tory-mps back in Jan

UsForThem is being advised by Ed Barker, a former Tory parliamentary candidate and Westminster PR man who played a key role in Boris Johnson’s leadership campaign. He is also advising the Covid Recovery Group (CRG) of lockdown-sceptic Tory MPs, members of which have backed the UsForThem bid to fully reopen schools. Baker refused to answer questions about how he was funding Us4Them.

This group www.parentsunited.net/about-us/ actually has a larger membership of grassroots parents.

It's because that concern only manifests in very limited ways and evaporates as soon as the next mitigation measure row comes up.

Not at all. As far as I have observed they are against ALL mitigation measures - closure of schools , isolation, masks etc that impact negatively on children. These are entirely consistent positions.

You are making a lot of unexamined assumptions.

@noblegiraffe

@cornflowersandpoppies

And who started a petition to close schools?

This.

Have you ever considered the reason they've gained traction is because they're right?

Like I said before, their campaign to have no mitigation measures in schools led to spiralling infection rates in children which then meant, because of a spiralling death rate in adults, schools had to close so no, I don’t think it’s because they’re right.

As for gaining traction, I don’t think they have the support of the majority of parents either. Despite them campaigning against masks in schools and encouraging parents to declare their child exempt, the vast majority of kids were not declared exempt and did wear masks. Despite them campaigning heavily to not have the covid vaccine offered to children, polling shows the majority of parents would take it up for their child.

They tried to get support on MN but are pretty widely derided as batshit on here.

They are not the voice of parents.

As far as I have observed they are against ALL mitigation measures - closure of schools , isolation, masks etc that impact negatively on children.

Yes, that’s because they’re against all mitigation measures ever. If you are against all mitigation measures ever, then that will include ones that affect children. Obviously.

Yet now we are all being vaccinated you still bang on about safety from Covid and claim if I don't share your single minded obsession I don't care..They amount to holding children hostage to your fears

Well said.

@noblegiraffe

As far as I have observed they are against ALL mitigation measures - closure of schools , isolation, masks etc that impact negatively on children.

Yes, that’s because they’re against all mitigation measures ever. If you are against all mitigation measures ever, then that will include ones that affect children. Obviously.

So you admit then that there’s nothing contradictory there at all.

Like I said before, their campaign to have no mitigation measures in schools led to spiralling infection rates in children which then meant, because of a spiralling death rate in adults, schools had to close so no, I don’t think it’s because they’re right.

There are a series of unexamined assumptions in this logic chain, and it is all based anyone on un-evidenced counterfactuals.

The facts of the matter are: 1) there have been mitigation measures in schools. 2) covid has spread in schools, but until now schools have never been a major driver of the spread of the pandemic . 3) mitigation measures and closures of schools have had seriously detrimental effects on the well-being of 100,000s of children.

Quite a lot of my friends have worked in schools which have worn masks and had bubbles and no go areas of the school from the start, and infections still spiralled in those areas.

They are contradictory in succeeding in keeping children physically in schools Bizawit, with these incompatible campaigns, over the past 9 months , is the point being made. And they never seem to campaign for measures to help children catch up more/receive Mental Health support. They always go quiet on that, which is contradictory to their claims.

I said they didn't care about kids.

If you are against isolation for kids and are convinced that you are right then wouldn't you be raising merry hell when nearly a million kids were isolating before Christmas? Wouldn't you be mentioning the incredibly damaging effect on their education?

Why would you not? Why would you shut down conversations about it?

@Bizawit

Yet now we are all being vaccinated you still bang on about safety from Covid and claim if I don't share your single minded obsession I don't care..They amount to holding children hostage to your fears

Well said.

People posting shit and pretending I said it again.

At the start of this thread I said in response to

I adamantly support the end of close contact isolation in favour of testing or nothing at all..

No problem with having that conversation, it needs to happen at some point.

I also said later in the thread:

An argument for rampant covid spread in schools from September when the majority of adults will be double jabbed will be a different kettle of fish.

@noblegiraffe

I said they didn't care about kids.

If you are against isolation for kids and are convinced that you are right then wouldn't you be raising merry hell when nearly a million kids were isolating before Christmas? Wouldn't you be mentioning the incredibly damaging effect on their education?

Why would you not? Why would you shut down conversations about it?

They were raising hell, but there most immediate concern was the closure of schools, which has even more detrimental effects on an even larger number of children. Now schools are thankfully open, attention has shifted to isolations. That’s a completely consistent and reasonable position.