Anti-lockdowners pretending to care about kids again

[noblegiraffe]

So it's all over the news about how nearly 400,000 kids are having to isolate because of covid cases in schools. Complaints about how disruptive to education it is and to the mental health of the children involved. This disruptive isolation must end as soon as possible.

Contrast to last November when nearly a million kids were self-isolating in a week. Do you remember the headlines, discussions and outrage about that?

No, of course you don't. Because back then, the solution to so many kids isolating was to put more mitigation measures in schools and attempt to stop so many kids catching it.

Now they can argue that it doesn't matter if all kids catch it, they're all over the 'terrible' isolation figures which are less than half of those last year.

I'm SO done with people only caring about kids and education when they think that they can use them for their own benefit.

If these loud voices could be used to talk about things like the cuts to pupil premium, the pitiful covid catch-up funding, the critical shortage of teachers, the unsafe state of schools, the massive waiting lists for CAMHS and SEN services, then maybe I'd believe them when they claim to care about children.

So because I was told to wear a mask, despite none being available at my place of work, that somehow makes your predicament worse?

No. It makes it bad, as is your predicament. I didn’t say it was worse.

As was your predicament, sorry. I hope your circumstances have improved now PPE is more widely available.

@showerbeer

To be fair *@christinarossetti19* throughout the pandemic there has been a lot of talk from teachers about how we are asked to do more than anyone else is, and are put in a more unsafe environment than anyone else.

I think if the Press didn’t keep saying that teachers were not at risk and producing pictures of classrooms with only one or two children in (wearing masks too, weirdly), Boris and Gavin didn’t keep saying ‘Schools are safe’ over and over again to every question, if they didn’t actually catch Covid themselves, of they didn’t have a far right grassroots group campaign actually against measures to keep schools open, if Gavin didn’t specifically write that masks were not to be used in classrooms for staff, that Jenny Harries didn’t blame teachers/staff rooms and pupils playing in playgrounds, and thread after thread of people gaslighting, then some teachers wouldn’t have felt the need to speak out so much.

Instead, some school staff in some schools (usually the ones that weren’t private schools or made up schools) were seeing staff and children drop left right and centre, were worried and stressed for their pupils dropping like flies last Nov/Dec and not coping with isolations, were desperate not to go back to remote learning (and we know how that turned out in Jan) and yet still some posters, the ones referred to in the OP, stuck the boot in, time and time again.

So then why assert that schools drive infections when that hasn’t really been seen anywhere? It’s always within a wider context of community infections.

I didn’t originally assert that schools drive infections but was pointing out that your link didn’t refute the claim, as you stated it did. Do read the full REACT study though if you can (it’s long though, sorry!) It’s very interesting regarding the cases post vaccine drive and the Delta variant and the role schools are contributing to it recently.
I really hope we get a hold on this Delta variant soon, in some areas of the country.

Flu cases practically disappeared, around the world. It doesn't just magically appear.

Why has the UK suddenly got so many. In summer. 1000+ deaths a week? When flu has virtually disappeared this year?

Sorry posted on wrong thread.

@Tealightsandd

Sorry posted on wrong thread.

You make an interesting point though!

You can’t get clearer than all the bubbles popping to show that schools were not safe and teachers were in danger before the vaccinations started: Covid spreads amazingly well in cramped, unventilated conditions - who’d have thought it?

For what’s it’s worth, I agree that they shouldn’t keep sending children home to isolate after adults are double vaccinated (which hasn’t quite happened yet) as the threat to life should be massively reduced. On the other hand, I do think it shows the importance of mitigation (including masks and priority boosters for school staff) in schools if you want to keep schools open long term (as the virus mutates and if immunity weakens). Are we going to focus on encouraging the government to plough some money into schools now?

I am fairly certain masks help stop Covid spreading, whoever queried it. It would have been sensible to keep them a little longer.

Sense has prevailed. Schools to be told to treat Covid like flu

@BustopherPonsonbyJones

You can’t get clearer than all the bubbles popping to show that schools were not safe and teachers were in danger before the vaccinations started: Covid spreads amazingly well in cramped, unventilated conditions - who’d have thought it?

For what’s it’s worth, I agree that they shouldn’t keep sending children home to isolate after adults are double vaccinated (which hasn’t quite happened yet) as the threat to life should be massively reduced. On the other hand, I do think it shows the importance of mitigation (including masks and priority boosters for school staff) in schools if you want to keep schools open long term (as the virus mutates and if immunity weakens). Are we going to focus on encouraging the government to plough some money into schools now?

I am fairly certain masks help stop Covid spreading, whoever queried it. It would have been sensible to keep them a little longer.

Absolutely agree.

@ChloeDecker

I have to hold my hands up. I made the mistake of taking a poster's claims (on another thread) at face value. Turns out we don't have all these flu deaths afterall.

Sorry for the confusion and the derail.

So is the actual plan that isolations of close contacts stop in schools, but continue in other venues/workplaces? Or that they stop everywhere?

I’d hope they would stop everywhere. There shouldn’t be a difference between schools and other places of work and the vaccines appear to be working (for now and for most).

@ChloeDecker

From the link:

Based on the data available, in-person learning in schools has not been associated with substantial community transmission. Although national COVID-19 case incidence rates among children and adolescents have risen over time, this trend parallels trends observed among adults.17 Increases in case incidence among school-aged children and school reopenings do not appear to pre-date increases in community transmission

Community transmission is the driver according to CDC. Where’s the proof that Delta is any different? And what (if any) danger is it to normal, healthy children?

am fairly certain masks help stop Covid spreading, whoever queried it. It would have been sensible to keep them a little longer

I’m not. No proof they’ve ever made a difference

Still masks in schools in Scotland and we have the highest rates in Europe 🤷🏻‍♀️They clearly do not work

I don’t understand the OP.

I am hugely anti lockdown and I don’t think kids should ever miss their education for a virus which doesn’t affect them.

I also don’t think we should give them a dystopian experience with bubbles, plastic screens, eating in classrooms for the same reason. We can have a debate about some of that, but children missing school was always bad.

Not sure where the inconsistency is?

@Jiboo2

I don’t understand the OP.

I am hugely anti lockdown and I don’t think kids should ever miss their education for a virus which doesn’t affect them.

I also don’t think we should give them a dystopian experience with bubbles, plastic screens, eating in classrooms for the same reason. We can have a debate about some of that, but children missing school was always bad.

Not sure where the inconsistency is?

The virus does affect children

Try looking up dystopian.

@WouldBeGood

Sense has prevailed. Schools to be told to treat Covid like flu

What publication is this?

Definition seems to fit....

“Utopian describes a society that's conceived to be perfect. Dystopian is the exact opposite — it describes an imaginary society that is as dehumanizing and as unpleasant as possible.”

Serious question. How many of our 12 million schoolchildren have died with Covid?

[quote UsedUpUsername]@ChloeDecker

From the link:

Based on the data available, in-person learning in schools has not been associated with substantial community transmission. Although national COVID-19 case incidence rates among children and adolescents have risen over time, this trend parallels trends observed among adults.17 Increases in case incidence among school-aged children and school reopenings do not appear to pre-date increases in community transmission

Community transmission is the driver according to CDC. Where’s the proof that Delta is any different? And what (if any) danger is it to normal, healthy children?[/quote]
CDC is from the USA as I said before regarding your link, where schools have had vastly different experience, with mitigation on schools and young people that we don’t have, to help stop the spread and it looks like it worked up to the point in March, from your link, before Delta took hold. They have also started to vaccinate 12 upwards.

From the REACT study in the UK,

Professor Steven Riley, Professor of Infectious Disease Dynamics at Imperial, said: “Even though we are seeing the highest infection prevalence in younger people who are less susceptible to COVID-19, if this growth continues it will drive up infections in older, more vulnerable people, as the vaccines are not 100% effective and not everyone has been fully vaccinated. This would lead to more hospitalisations and deaths, and risks straining the NHS, which is why it’s vital that people take up their vaccine offer and continue to stick to the rules.”

I am fairly certain masks help stop Covid spreading, whoever queried it. It would have been sensible to keep them a little longer.**

I don’t know to what extent,but I’d also assume that face coverings must help stop spreading the virus.
I’m not sure we’re stopping them on July 19th are we?

@Jiboo2

Children are low risk but it’s more about the controlling the spread of infection for those who are at risk - and to ensure hospitals don’t become overwhelmed.

Lockdowns were needed when cases were spiralling out of control - it bought scientists time to come up with a solution, and helped to control the spread of infection so that hospitals didn’t get to breaking point. However my Mum’s local hospital was at breaking point, so my thoughts are that - had measures been implemented when the scientists had advised, and had border measures been put in place earlier - we would have fared better, and been out of lockdown earlier/less impact on children.

And also - based on our current data we believe children are low risk, however - I think new mutations will occur. I also have a family member who suffered a PIMS reaction, and there are certain factors such as a link between Covid and type 1 diabetes which I think it is important to be aware of.

I don’t put my faith in the government, but I do out my faith in science - so I am more than prepared to listen to them and follow what they advise.

I’ll go down your route of just repeating the same thing. Yes, masks work. You just don’t like wearing them. Neither do I, but they work.

Until this virus burns out, either by herd immunity because enough people have had Covid to build up resistance or through vaccination (which are boosted when antibodies weaken), it makes sense to use masks in schools so the children are less at risk of catching Covid and causing mutations which are less effective against the vaccinations. Wear masks, improve ventilation in schools, provide more space and stop the close contact isolations, which are unnecessary if the vaccines work for most people. This is more of a personal choice but I would encourage secondary school children to have the vaccine when it’s offered too. It’s a middle ground which will give your children the education you claim you want them to have.

I actually can’t remember what the OP wanted as mitigation throughout but she has definitely always fought to keep schools open in a way which would be safe for children, staff and the wider community, unlike some of you, who are living in a dream world. This is post-pandemic Britain and we need to adapt. ‘I want it to be the same as before because I’ve HAD IT with Covid’ really doesn’t work. Get rid of the mitigations at a sensible point when cases really are low across the entire world.