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Anti-lockdowners pretending to care about kids again

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 29/06/2021 17:11

So it's all over the news about how nearly 400,000 kids are having to isolate because of covid cases in schools. Complaints about how disruptive to education it is and to the mental health of the children involved. This disruptive isolation must end as soon as possible.

Contrast to last November when nearly a million kids were self-isolating in a week. Do you remember the headlines, discussions and outrage about that?

No, of course you don't. Because back then, the solution to so many kids isolating was to put more mitigation measures in schools and attempt to stop so many kids catching it.

Now they can argue that it doesn't matter if all kids catch it, they're all over the 'terrible' isolation figures which are less than half of those last year.

I'm SO done with people only caring about kids and education when they think that they can use them for their own benefit.

If these loud voices could be used to talk about things like the cuts to pupil premium, the pitiful covid catch-up funding, the critical shortage of teachers, the unsafe state of schools, the massive waiting lists for CAMHS and SEN services, then maybe I'd believe them when they claim to care about children.

OP posts:
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TeddingtonTrashbag · 01/07/2021 07:14

@WouldBeGood

Still masks in schools in Scotland and we have the highest rates in Europe 🤷🏻‍♀️They clearly do not work
Completely agree. Have some hope in add in England with this headline today,
Anti-lockdowners pretending to care about kids again
Hornbill123456789 · 01/07/2021 07:19

Masks :

Masks are most effective as “source control,” which means preventing infected people from spreading the virus to other people.

Respiratory droplets with the virus are expelled into the air when infected people cough, talk, sneeze or breathe. These droplets quickly evaporate and shrink to become tiny airborne particles.

But if an infected person is wearing a mask, it will catch and contain the larger droplets in the humid space between the person’s mouth and the mask. In this environment, droplets take nearly a hundred times as long to transform into airborne particles. So masks reduce the spread of infectious particles

This makes a meaningful difference when everyone is wearing masks. If you’re the only one wearing a mask in a public location, it won’t necessarily protect you from being infected. But if everybody is wearing a mask, your odds of infection will go down by quite a bit.

WouldBeGood · 01/07/2021 07:20

@echt it is the Ipaper

WouldBeGood · 01/07/2021 07:21

Ooh, @TeddingtonTrashbag that’s great news!

mrshoho · 01/07/2021 07:47

I agree with your OP @noblegiraffe. And isn't it amazing how all media outlets now have detailed figures of the numbers of children isolating. And government ministers are now crying out how detrimental these isolations are. Yet last Autumn/Winter it was almost secretive information as to how many schools were affected. It was down to concerned parent groups to collate any information as there was an obvious media ban on discussing any school issues.

AliceLivesHere · 01/07/2021 08:00

Maybe people weren't complaining last November because people hadn't been vaccinated then and it was vital to cut the spread. Now everyone over the age of 30 and as low as 18 in most parts of the country have been invited for their first vaccine. Millions have had their second and data shows that vaccines REDUCE the death rate, the hospitalisation rate, the symptoms rate and the rate of transmission. People also know that complications or death from covid is very, very rare in children and so sending home perfectly healthy children to isolate because someone who has been within 2m of them has it is stupid. There is correctly a calling to stop this now. Fortunately, it has been discussed and should stop from September giving even more people time to get a vaccine. No need to keep on sending home perfectly healthy children.

AliceLivesHere · 01/07/2021 08:03

@WouldBeGood

Sense has prevailed. Schools to be told to treat Covid like flu
It does make sense,
bentleydrummle · 01/07/2021 08:08

I am a teacher and I very much disagree with you noble. I do not think you can decry this as hypocrisy when the situation has been changed so drastically since Nov/Dec due to the vaccine. It's not the same at all. Why should the rest of the population be able to carry on as normal after the 19th and yet children still face such terrible disruption?

AliceLivesHere · 01/07/2021 08:12

@bentleydrummle

I am a teacher and I very much disagree with you noble. I do not think you can decry this as hypocrisy when the situation has been changed so drastically since Nov/Dec due to the vaccine. It's not the same at all. Why should the rest of the population be able to carry on as normal after the 19th and yet children still face such terrible disruption?
Indeed. In November everyone faced major disruptions. Most people are back to normal in many respects now, the massive difference is children who are at extremely tiny risk being sent home still. It just doesn't make any sense so people are raising this point, correctly IMO.
Bryonyshcmyony · 01/07/2021 08:13

@mrshoho

I agree with your OP *@noblegiraffe*. And isn't it amazing how all media outlets now have detailed figures of the numbers of children isolating. And government ministers are now crying out how detrimental these isolations are. Yet last Autumn/Winter it was almost secretive information as to how many schools were affected. It was down to concerned parent groups to collate any information as there was an obvious media ban on discussing any school issues.
But you weren't saying isolation was detrimental before Xmas, far from it. So who is the hypocrite here?
Bryonyshcmyony · 01/07/2021 08:15

Ditto all the "university lecturers" on here who tried to tell everyone that online classes were preferable to real life lectures and parents and students moaning about online didn't care if lecturers died (fair enough that's paraphrasing but that was the gist).

WouldBeGood · 01/07/2021 08:23

BBC reporting that the government does no analysis of the risks and benefits of school isolations. It’s beyond stupid now.

Anti-lockdowners pretending to care about kids again
bentleydrummle · 01/07/2021 08:44

Ditto all the "university lecturers" on here who tried to tell everyone that online classes were preferable to real life lectures and parents and students moaning about online didn't care if lecturers died (fair enough that's paraphrasing but that was the gist).

Indeed. I had a soon to be trainee teacher come into school to visit last week who has just finished her undergraduate degree. She has spent the last year and a bit in her bedroom and was clearly very distressed and unnerved by being out and with others. What on earth have we done to people?

mrshoho · 01/07/2021 08:44

But you weren't saying isolation was detrimental before Xmas, far from it. So who is the hypocrite here?

Who are you calling a hypocrite Bryony? Me? Your comment makes no sense.

Bryonyshcmyony · 01/07/2021 08:50

@bentleydrummle

Ditto all the "university lecturers" on here who tried to tell everyone that online classes were preferable to real life lectures and parents and students moaning about online didn't care if lecturers died (fair enough that's paraphrasing but that was the gist).

Indeed. I had a soon to be trainee teacher come into school to visit last week who has just finished her undergraduate degree. She has spent the last year and a bit in her bedroom and was clearly very distressed and unnerved by being out and with others. What on earth have we done to people?

Yes it's been bloody awful. I'm still smarting from reading comments on here last year basically saying parents were being precious and awful for worrying about isolation at any age. Then, as the national mood changed, they changed to - oh of course we don't want closures, we just want (insert mitigation that will never happen and even if it did would take five years to implement and probably mean building thousands of new schools, so basically - closures)
noblegiraffe · 01/07/2021 08:53

In response to the allegation of hypocrisy about not saying isolation was detrimental to education before Christmas, here is the email that I sent my MP in November and pasted on MN for other posters to copy:

Dear X

I am writing to you because I am increasingly alarmed about the worsening situation in secondary schools in England.

Last week's ONS random sampling data showed that the infection rate in secondary school children continues to increase at a worrying rate, after a short dip at half term which confirms that the transmission in this group of children is related to school attendance. They are the most infected subset of the population, with an estimated 1 in 50 students affected.
The latest attendance figures show that nearly 900,000 pupils were absent from school for covid reasons last Thursday. 73% of secondary schools had isolating pupils due to contact with cases within the school. Again, this represents a rapidly worsening picture, with only 64% of secondary schools affected the Thursday before. 1% of schools are completely closed, this was 0.4% the previous week.

It appears that any efforts to control the transmission of covid within secondary schools is not working. The change from sending home full bubbles when there area positive cases to only sending home close contacts is not breaking the chain of transmission and causing further cases, and more pupils to be sent home. Some children have spent many weeks in quarantine since September, unable to access face-to-face teaching and not even allowed to leave the house. This should be a national scandal, and it is inexplicable that it is not headline news as it was when it was university students that were affected.

The DfE response to these worrying figures, rather than recognising the need to improve measures to control the spread, is to suggest that the issue is that schools are sending home too many pupils. Given the increasing infection rates, sending home fewer pupils than currently would seem to be an extremely counter-productive and would contribute to increased spread.

There is nothing to suggest that the situation will improve, and everything to suggest that it will worsen over the next 3 weeks. More schools will have to close due to lack of staffing, and more pupils will be trapped at home quarantining, some for the Christmas period.

That secondary school pupils are becoming increasingly infected with covid should be a national concern given the latest news that Christmas will bring more household mingling. These children will be visiting elderly relatives, indoors, for extended periods, and there will be tragic consequences. The government will be held responsible for this, particularly given that they have overturned some schools' decisions to close early to provide a safety buffer for families before Christmas.

Please could you raise with your colleague Gavin Williamson, and the DfE as a matter of urgency the issue of inadequate mitigation measures in secondary schools which is leading to uncontrolled transmission of covid, and nearly a million students out of school?

The use of masks in classrooms is currently 'to be avoided' in the school guidance, due to potential effects on teaching and learning. This should now be balanced against the huge disruption to teaching and learning due to pupils and teachers being unable to attend school.

Mass testing in schools should be a priority. We know that children are more likely to be asymptomatic or have symptoms which do not currently trigger a test. As a result they are in school spreading covid, which will then affect teachers and be taken back to the community. Instead of isolating only close contacts the entire bubble should be tested when there is a positive case to identify all infected pupils.

Funding should be given to schools to improve ventilation in classrooms, as has been done in other countries.

The position of clinically extremely vulnerable teachers and children, and those who have vulnerable members of their household should be reconsidered. Forcing them to work or study in an environment which is obviously not safe after lockdown is completely unacceptable, and I note that you and your colleagues are not expected to put yourselves and your families at risk in this way.

Please note that I understand that keeping schools open is a priority for the government, but they are currently failing in this. Saying that schools will be kept open is not enough, swift action needs to be taken before the system collapses as is happening in Hull.

I look forward to your response,
Kind regards...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a4086381-Schools-should-close-for-2-weeks-after-the-Christmas-mixing?msgid=102096960#102096960

Please note, in particular, the part in bold.

It is so depressing to read my words from November warning of what would happen, knowing in fact that the system did collapse and schools had to be closed from Jan to March.

It’s also depressing remembering just how much shit I took for saying it.

OP posts:
WouldBeGood · 01/07/2021 08:55

So, people are at fault for not railing against the secret school isolations in November..?

WouldBeGood · 01/07/2021 08:57

I’m pleased to reassure you that I’ve railed against all school closures and stupid measures that are detrimental to children, particularly the most vulnerable, for well over a year now, and have written numerous letters.

Bryonyshcmyony · 01/07/2021 08:59

But your email mentions that you think they should send more students home, not less - and that schools should close early. So it's confusing.

noblegiraffe · 01/07/2021 09:01

@Bryonyshcmyony

But your email mentions that you think they should send more students home, not less - and that schools should close early. So it's confusing.
Only if you’re an idiot who doesn’t understand that controlling spread properly means fewer isolations in the long run.

And that not controlling it at all leads to school closures.

OP posts:
Bryonyshcmyony · 01/07/2021 09:04

only if you are an idiot

OK then.

WouldBeGood · 01/07/2021 09:08

Nothing like a bit of nuanced discussion 😂

noblegiraffe · 01/07/2021 09:09

Yeah, throwing around accusations of hypocrisy doesn’t deserve a kinder response.

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noblegiraffe · 01/07/2021 09:25

@WouldBeGood

So, people are at fault for not railing against the secret school isolations in November..?
I might as well bash my head against a brick wall, mightn’t I?

The complaints that I was posting school threads. The relentless abuse. The complaints to MN about me. The trying to hound me off the site.

This was the sort of data I was posting and starting threads about and now you’re all ‘how could we complain when we didn’t know about it’

Unfuckingbelievable. People didn’t want to listen.

OP posts:
borntobequiet · 01/07/2021 09:29

@Bryonyshcmyony

But your email mentions that you think they should send more students home, not less - and that schools should close early. So it's confusing.
Only if you read it fully determined to misinterpret a very small part of it and ignore the rest.
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