Anti-lockdowners pretending to care about kids again

[noblegiraffe]

So it's all over the news about how nearly 400,000 kids are having to isolate because of covid cases in schools. Complaints about how disruptive to education it is and to the mental health of the children involved. This disruptive isolation must end as soon as possible.

Contrast to last November when nearly a million kids were self-isolating in a week. Do you remember the headlines, discussions and outrage about that?

No, of course you don't. Because back then, the solution to so many kids isolating was to put more mitigation measures in schools and attempt to stop so many kids catching it.

Now they can argue that it doesn't matter if all kids catch it, they're all over the 'terrible' isolation figures which are less than half of those last year.

I'm SO done with people only caring about kids and education when they think that they can use them for their own benefit.

If these loud voices could be used to talk about things like the cuts to pupil premium, the pitiful covid catch-up funding, the critical shortage of teachers, the unsafe state of schools, the massive waiting lists for CAMHS and SEN services, then maybe I'd believe them when they claim to care about children.

I’d much prefer my children to develop natural immunity than via a vaccine.

This ‘wave’ seems to be just that....young non vulnerable people getting it.

twitter.com/rwjdingwall/status/1410177453876731915?s=21

I'll take advice from epidemiologists and virologists, not from a sociologist on Twitter, thanks.

@cornflowersandpoppies

There isn’t though born

Same risk.

The difference isn’t in the level of risk - that would be hard to categorise anyway - but in being told not to do something that might increase one’s safety versus not being in a position to do that thing. The situations are different.

And anti lockdowners/anti vaxxers - if you are THAT concerned about children’s health - what are you doing to help? Supporting ideologies that increase the infection rate and make things worse for children - or -volunteering in a local sports club and restricting your behaviour to reduce the infection rate for others? I highly suspect it is the former

Well @Hornbill123456789 i could say the same about pro lockdowners and social housing. There has been no thought at all for tenants who are struggling in dilapidated unfit housing all throughout these lockdowns. And before you think this is new from me i have an extensive posting history about it under my previous username HelenaDove. Ive been campaigning on this sort of thing pre covid and pre Grenfell.

And I started out on the early worried about Coronavirus threads. I "switched alligence (if you can phrase it like this) in the summer of last year when i saw how people who cant wear masks were/are being treated. Maybe a bit less othering and ableism would have helped. Peoples attitudes have consequences. Rape survivors and people with disabilities were told they just wernt trying hard enough. I have no wish to ally with people who think this way. I didnt start from an anti lockdown viewpoint. I was pushed there.

I am pro my 10 year old having the vaccine. I realise her risk from Covid is low, but I’m concerned about the potential unknown effects of Covid in the future. This concerns me more than any side effects from vaccine.

Also - as with the flu vaccine - when my daughter receives it, I know her risk is low - but it’s more about protecting and helping the rest of society.

Plenty of people - do you think people working in factories have been able to socially distance?

No. We’re they also told not to wear face coverings?

I’m sorry but this “teachers are the only ones who have been asked to work in unsafe conditions” is just really blinkered, especially when teaching is a predominantly middle class job which a decent salary and a great pension.

Well it seems that others work in unsafe conditions - but that none of those had actually been told to forego safety measures if they were available.
What has class, salary and pension got to do with it?

I don’t believe for a second that we are the most persecuted profession in the country.

I doubt anyone does, even if such a thing were worth contemplating.

Oh terrible autocorrect. Were not we’re.

@borntobequiet

So because I was told to wear a mask, despite none being available at my place of work, that somehow makes your predicament worse?

Right…. Okay .

Anti while I am very disillusioned with the government, I put my faith in science.

Many great scientists seem to have an unbelievable level of intelligence and remain so humble. These are the people I trust.

The government is us; we are the government, you and I.” —Theodore Roosevelt

I actually think this is a very powerful quote. WE put them there (not me!) - but we. We elected them to represent us.

We need to take responsibility - as much as the government.

I want a decent Labour leader.

And instead of passing the buck, someone needs to take a stand.

There was an interesting piece on Radio 4 this afternoon about the pandemic and education, with the social mobility Professor saying that the impact has been most severe on children already disadvantaged and a Professor from UCL, Christina something, pointing out that the government has done nothing to make schools safer and adopting a herd immunity approach is crazy given that we know that covid has long-lasting effects for many children, that children being infected drives community infection, that we don't know the longer term effects of this virus and that the more is spreads the more likely vaccine-resistant variants will emerge.

She also pointed out that eg the state of New York is paying for every single classroom to have ventilation installed, and that our government has broken every single promise it made re:education. Schools aren't and have never been safe, the laptops and technology promised last year never materialised and the 'catch up' investment never happened.

Why people are raging at teachers rather than the government is beyond me, truly.

we know that covid has long-lasting effects for many children

Do we?

that children being infected drives community infection

No they don’t: www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/transmission_k_12_schools.html

that we don't know the longer term effects of this virus

That’s true

and that the more is spreads the more likely vaccine-resistant variants will emerge

What does school closures have to do with this? You can’t vaccinate the whole world and you can’t close the borders, so best you can do is vaccinate yourself and move the fuck on.

I just think that this “no other profession has been asked to do XYZ” is what makes it seem like teachers think we have it the worst. How can you possibly know that no one else has been asked to forgo safety measures?
As I said, masks were not banned, and in many schools staff have been able to wear them throughout. If you have a head who is banning you from wearing masks then that is a leadership problem.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7927578/

Yes we do, or at least scientists and people not putting their heads in the sand do.

Have a look at the OCN data of random samples - too many different charts to link here. There is an indisputable link between schools being open with no mitigating measures and rates of community transmission. School children have been the most infected subset of the population when schools have been open.

I haven't mentioned school closures - I was very specific about making schools safer. The more we allow the virus to unnecessarily spread in schools (unnecessary because there are mitigating actions eg masks that could be mandated) the more we open the doors to vaccine-resistant mutations.

Children can't 'vaccinate yourself and move the fuck on' at the moment, but the UCL Professor was advocating for mitigating measures until such a time as a vaccine for children was approved.

@showerbeer

I just think that this “no other profession has been asked to do XYZ” is what makes it seem like teachers think we have it the worst. How can you possibly know that no one else has been asked to forgo safety measures? As I said, masks were not banned, and in many schools staff have been able to wear them throughout. If you have a head who is banning you from wearing masks then that is a leadership problem.

Except that the DoE was very explicit in its guidance about masks not being necessary in schools.

Even if teachers wear them, they're still in an enclosed space with up to over a hundred children each day (secondary) with the children not wearing masks or being able to socially distance.

Re: the care workers and no PPE. Yes, it was and is an absolute disgrace, with the responsibility firmly at the feet of the government and its handing of contracts to its mates rather than companies actually able to produce and distribute the stuff.

that children being infected drives community infection

No they don’t : www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/transmission_k_12_schools.html*

An interesting link not based in UK schools with the different measures they have, from March and before the Delta variant took hold. This thing moves fast, eh?!

Meanwhile, from the UK this month from the REACT study (which is an interesting read) and Imperial….

www.imperial.ac.uk/news/224113/coronavirus-infections-rising-exponentially-england-react/

And ONS have said that they are publishing soon more recent data on children and school staff infection rises and that will be interesting to read (either way, in fairness)

Before anyone falsely claims I want self isolations over better testing and ventilation, I don’t. Self isolations and bubbles closing are bloody awful and always have been and I have always said that.

But how long can school children isolate for? An entire class or bubble can isolate, when the children may not even have covid, yet they isolate due to a covid case in the bubble.
How long will parents employers allow this? Not every company can afford to pay parents every time they need time off to look after their kids.
It just isn’t sustainable long term.
Let alone the kids education being seriously curtailed. Some children will never catch up as it is.

@Dave20

But how long can school children isolate for? An entire class or bubble can isolate, when the children may not even have covid, yet they isolate due to a covid case in the bubble. How long will parents employers allow this? Not every company can afford to pay parents every time they need time off to look after their kids. It just isn’t sustainable long term. Let alone the kids education being seriously curtailed. Some children will never catch up as it is.

It’s awful isn’t it? Makes you wonder why the government all this time refused to pay for any extra measures to keep our children in school more, doesn’t it?

[quote Chillychangchoo]@WouldBeGood

I mean the delusions of grandeur around a certain poster on mumsnet is truly astounding. If you disagree with her she assumes you’re getting paid. 😯[/quote]

@christinarossetti19 I’m definitely not saying the situation in schools was good; my windows only open an inch and even that’s pretty good going! It’s just the “no one else has been put at as much risk, no one else has had to do XYZ” that just doesn’t actually help anyone in my opinion.

Hamster some teens who had it, nasty flu... Felt awful.

Flu is not something we can build immune systems too however...
We don't think we can with covid either...

Ching, ching.. 💰

An interesting link not based in UK schools with the different measures they have, from March and before the Delta variant took hold. This thing moves fast, eh?!

So then why assert that schools drive infections when that hasn’t really been seen anywhere? It’s always within a wider context of community infections.

And if adults haven’t got their vaccines yet, it’s on them at this point. Anyone remotely vulnerable has been double jabbed at this point.

Kids shouldn’t be held back to protect them or anyone else at this point.

showerbeer well, I think teachers had a point with that tbh, given that secondary school children were the most infected subset of the population before Xmas, then overtaken by primary when the Medway variant took hold.

While they were being gaslighted by the government mantra of 'schools are safe' and with no mitigation measures in place.

I don't recall teachers saying that they 'had it the worst' tbh. More that it was completely scary and shitty, and frustrating to know that there was more that could have been done to reduce risk of transmission and/or bubbles bursting and/or school closures.

To be fair @christinarossetti19 throughout the pandemic there has been a lot of talk from teachers about how we are asked to do more than anyone else is, and are put in a more unsafe environment than anyone else.