Time to "let it rip"?

[Warhertisuff]

Firstly, let me say that I've been in broadly in favour of restrictions put in place since March 2020, but surely, once we get to 19 July, and we have widespread vaccination coverage (not to mention non-vaccine immunity), we should just go back to normal, completely, and treat Covid like the flu, as effectively that's what we've tamed to be akin to.

No more masks, no more isolation, no more testing and tracing....

Yes, they'll be a spike in cases, and many will get ill, but as long as hospitals aren't overwhelmed and people aren't dying in droves, so be it.

I appreciate that there are those who remain vulnerable even after being double-jabbed, but I'd have thought it would be far better for them to shield themselves for a short period as it rips through and burns out like past epidemics, rather than keeping it simmering and retaining a moderate level of risk over a much longer period as we neither do enough to suppress it completely, nor allow things to open up fully enough for it to rip through in a few weeks.

Then as and when variants do arrive (which they probably will) we'll have an even more comprehensive base level of population immunity.

Thank goodness people who are not scientists and don't really understand pandemics aren't in charge of decision making.

If you aren't highly qualified in a particular field why on earth would you feel your contributions and opinions are valid?

@MadMadMadamMim

Thank goodness people who are not scientists and don't really understand pandemics aren't in charge of decision making.

If you aren't highly qualified in a particular field why on earth would you feel your contributions and opinions are valid?

Indeed, and they seem to be saying we should be able to end restrictions!

[quote Delatron]@justwanttodanceagain
Medics are very worried about bronchiolitis this winter. Not sure what your point is though? We know Covid has always been mild for most children.[/quote]
I didn't make a point - I asked a question.

bronchiolitis isn't "far more serious to children."

So I'm still waiting for this list of "plenty" you mentioned.

[quote Overthebow]@Mamanyt the most successful viruses, that survive and spread, are the ones that transmit easily but don’t kill their host. They need hosts to survive.[/quote]
Why do people believe this crap? Plenty of viruses are very lethal and survive just fine - there are billions of us on the planet and we reproduce quite quickly. All a lethal virus has to do is evolve do it can be spread before symptoms appear. Look at HIV for instance.

So I'm still waiting for this list of "plenty" you mentioned.

Who do you think you are!!!!?

I’m still waiting

MadMadMadamMim

Thank goodness people who are not scientists and don't really understand pandemics aren't in charge of decision making.

If you aren't highly qualified in a particular field why on earth would you feel your contributions and opinions are valid?

Indeed, and they seem to be saying we should be able to end restrictions!

@Warhertisuff
which experts are saying all restrictions including T&T should be dropped at once, and COVID will "burn itself out"?

@Warhertisuff

Covid is infectious for days before people even show symptoms, never mind die. Every single new variant so far that has had increased infectiousness, has been more deadly. It doesn't mean that pattern will continue, but there's no evolutionary reason for it not to. This has been stated by so many experts now, so many times.

So what's the solution. Endless restrictions as we fight a losing battle, or we snuff it out by giving it no new "Covid virgins" to infect and like the flu, it has to battle against a population that has comprehensive acquired immunity.

Difficult to answer that as it doesn't actually make sense.

What battle do we lose with restrictions?
How do you give it no "new covid virgins" without restrictions?

Unless you one of those who believes that being infected and surviving gives you better immunity than a vaccine? So you're kind of thinking that once everyone has had the virus for real at least once, we're home and dry?? If so then please read up on Brazil's experience.

Incidentally I wasn't arguing for one solution or another - I was simply pointing out that before making an argument, people need to actually understand the argument they're making.

@Dustyboots

So I'm still waiting for this list of "plenty" you mentioned.

Who do you think you are!!!!?

I’m still waiting

Yes - I thought you were sort of spouting off without actually knowing anything. The giveaway was "plenty". People always exaggerate wildly when they're totally ignorant and bluffing

@justwanttodanceagain

"In the UK RSV accounts for approximately 450,000 GP appointments, 29,000 hospitalisations and 83 deaths per year in children and adolescents, the majority in infants."

www.ovg.ox.ac.uk/research/respiratory-syncytial-virus-rsv

RSV is a bigger problem for children than covid.

[quote OliveTree75]@justwanttodanceagain

"In the UK RSV accounts for approximately 450,000 GP appointments, 29,000 hospitalisations and 83 deaths per year in children and adolescents, the majority in infants."

www.ovg.ox.ac.uk/research/respiratory-syncytial-virus-rsv

RSV is a bigger problem for children than covid.[/quote]
No it isn't.

It's certainly comparable in the very young - but if covid were allowed to spread unchecked, the deaths we've seen in children (30 in the UK) would be substantially higher as one of the biggest reasons for so few deaths is lack of exposure to it due to social distancing/lockdowns etc.

Assuming that children have had an equal share of the overall infections, then without any restrictions you'd expect around 4-5x higher which would take it to nearly double that for RSV.

@OliveTree75

Worth a read:
www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-56696907

Until the rest of the world is vaccinated we are vulnerable to vaccine resistant strains developing. I can't see things being fully back to normal until the majority of the world is vaccinated unless we seal ourselves off from the rest of the world which isn't going to happen

What battle do we lose with restrictions?

Really? Is that a serious question?!

Oh back to the vulnerable being locked up again are we? Full circle that has gone in the last year.

Good luck to you all living your normal life while millions are shielding, given many teachers are CEV how do you expect your education system to hold up then? What about all the NHS staff who are CEV, that will really help the waiting lists, never mind all other aspects of society.

@jumpbounce

Oh back to the vulnerable being locked up again are we? Full circle that has gone in the last year.

Good luck to you all living your normal life while millions are shielding, given many teachers are CEV how do you expect your education system to hold up then? What about all the NHS staff who are CEV, that will really help the waiting lists, never mind all other aspects of society.

Ffs, anyone would think we didn't have a highly effective vaccine programme.

It's true there are some immuno-suppressed people for whom the vaccine won't be particularly effective, but that's not the millions who were at substantial risk pre-vaccine.

@BarbarianMum

"Why do people believe this crap? Plenty of viruses are very lethal and survive just fine - there are billions of us on the planet and we reproduce quite quickly. All a lethal virus has to do is evolve do it can be spread before symptoms appear. Look at HIV for instance."

Because it is based on medical evidence is why people believe this. The 1918 flu virus evolved to be less deadly because it was killing too many hosts and is still around today. SARS also evolved to be less deadly (albeit from 90% fatality to 70%). Ebola meanwhile despite being very infectious hasn't turned into a global pandemic because it kills its hosts so effectively meaning outbreaks are contained on n local areas. HIV is actually not that deadly untreated and many people live for a long time with it.

Presenting a view that Covid will evolve into both an infectious and highly fatal virus is not just at odds with medical history it is also scaremongering.

@Warhertisuff the CEV who were at risk is around 2 million. That’s 2 million people expected to just take a chance on whether or not their vaccine works.

and treat Covid like the flu, as effectively that's what we've tamed to be akin to.

I mean, we definitely don't know if we have "tamed it" yet.

"Yes, they'll be a spike in cases, and many will get ill, but as long as hospitals aren't overwhelmed and people aren't dying in droves, so be it."

Pretty sure the main reason for the restrictions are so that hospitals aren't overwhelmed and people aren't dying in droves....

No - viruses that kill before they can spread aren't successful.

Ebola is fairly successful, because it is highly infectious. Pretty successful at killing it's victims too. A virus mutating to be more deadly doesn't necessarily mean it's less infectious, it could be a byproduct of it being more infectious.

So what's the solution. Endless restrictions as we fight a losing battle, or we snuff it out by giving it no new "Covid virgins" to infect and like the flu, it has to battle against a population that has comprehensive acquired immunity.

You understand that restrictions have always been about trying to prevent the NHS from getting overwhelmed, yes?

We are on our way out of restrictions IMO. We just need to sit tight and be patient and follow what the statistics are telling us is safe and sensible to do, when it's appropriate. I am fed up of working in a hot and sweaty mask and of not feeling comfortable to go do the things I would like to be doing (I'm CEV by the way, and I don't trust the gov't to provide me with enough any support to survive if I had to shield while the rest of you party hard) and I just want normality the same as you, but we ARE getting towards that point with the vaccination program. There's no point in "letting it rip" IF that overwhelms the NHS after all this bloody hard graft, if another couple of months sees enough of the population vaccinated for that not to happen.

Agree

We do have a vaccine programme but it's not fool proof either. It never will be, we all know this however it will hopefully be enough but we risk undermining the vaccination programme completely by just 'letting it rip' many knowledgeable scientists have warned this.

Not that any of it matters really given the suggestions on these threads is for these people to shield while it rips through the rest of the population quickly.
As a family who shielded for over a year I would be happy enough to commit to this approach, if there was evidence it worked, but I'm sure the non shielded wouldn't be so impressed with the impact on their lives of having so many shielded.

How many people who are CEV or CV have NOT been double vaccinated? And why not. They are doing 18-25 year olds now, so surely all others should've been done by now.

@ollyollyoxenfree

MadMadMadamMim

Thank goodness people who are not scientists and don't really understand pandemics aren't in charge of decision making.

If you aren't highly qualified in a particular field why on earth would you feel your contributions and opinions are valid?

Indeed, and they seem to be saying we should be able to end restrictions!

@Warhertisuff
which experts are saying all restrictions including T&T should be dropped at once, and COVID will "burn itself out"?

still very interested in who these experts are @Warhertisuff?

@Oblomov21

How many people who are CEV or CV have NOT been double vaccinated? And why not. They are doing 18-25 year olds now, so surely all others should've been done by now.

53,000 children for starters.

@justwanttodanceagain you want me to list every illness that is more serious to children than Covid?

How strange. It’s pretty obvious.
Covid is mild for most children.

I’d worry about meningitis, RSV, bronchitis, flu a lot more...

@OliveTree75 has helpful quoted some actual statistics.

The medical community here are not worried about Covid for young children this year. They are very worried about bronchiolitis, flu and RSV. But wow @justwanttodanceagain it’s amazing that you know more then them with your ‘theories’ about all these children that will be filling the hospitals with Covid this winter.

Honesty this board gets crazier by the day.

We have a highly successful vaccination program. I suggest you read up about it.

What about CV/CEV children, OP? They should just stay home and hide themselves while healthy people have life, or accept their fate?