If you think cases are exploding and vaccines are ineffective, what’s to be done?

[IrmaFayLear]

I see a number of posters are keen to draw attention to a huge rise in cases, plus new variants coming in too. They are also eager to point out vaccine failure.

I would be interested to know what their personal view is of our medium to long-term prospects. If no end is in sight and vaccines do not work, do they foresee societal collapse?

What vaccine failure?

The vaccines we have do work against the variants in this country.

The key thing is not to let any other variants into the country. So the government need to stop the stupidity about getting foreign holidays happening again. It is a lot cheaper to support the travel industry financially while closed due to border closures than to support the entire economy while closed due to another national lockdown (apart from pubs obvious because BJ promised that was irreversible )

Exploding case numbers are among school children, yet the Pfizer vaccine is licensed in over12s in the UK and is being given to over-12s in the US and EU. For some reason (antivaxxers in government) even optional vaccination of over12s is being blocked by the government.

According to nurse relative, most of those in hospital have chosen not to be vaccinated, despite being offered vaccine. We must no longer set national policy to protect people who choose to take their chances with the virus. Even NHS staff think these people should remain at home if infected and not seek treatment (except those with medical reasons why they can't have the vaccine).

I’m fully behind vaccination but I have seen posters being, to say the least, uncomplimentary about its efficacy.

But are they factually correct in their statements about its efficacy? Or are they basing their knowledge on the bloke next door who has a cousin who’s best friend knows someone who caught COVID after they’d had the vaccine?

@HolidayAtHome - you cannot just generalise on foreign holidays. Certain countries have low rates and high vaccination rates like many EU countries now and the US. Frankly given how many “foreigners” we have living and working and contributing here it is very Brexiteer to not let them go home this summer. “Even NHS staff” - the consultant doctors I know would strongly disagree with you. They take the oath they took seriously. Educated and liberal minded people do not think like that - they realise that anti vaxx is usually a question of education and personal history/circumstances. Let’s see what happens in e.g prisons if they will still get a choice to be vaccinated or not.

According to nurse relative, most of those in hospital have chosen not to be vaccinated, despite being offered vaccine. We must no longer set national policy to protect people who choose to take their chances with the virus. Even NHS staff think these people should remain at home if infected and not seek treatment (except those with medical reasons why they can't have the vaccine)

The HCPs who hold such views that unvaccinated people should be denied treatment should be struck off. Such a slippery slope.

@holidayathome No chance of that happening. MP's will want their summer recess abroad. Like last year.

I've yet to see any clear evidence that vaccines don't work against variants. People need to just focus on deaths and hospitalisations, surely!

I'm confused. I haven't seen anyone talking about new variant concerned about efficacy of the vaccine. I have only seen the positive data about the vaccine. Only possible concern now is spread amongst unvaccinated that may cause mutation.

The vaccine does not stop you getting covid. It reduces the chance of serious illness.

I haven't seen anyone say the vaccines are ineffective but we do know the first jab is no longer as effective against the Delta variant. That is partly why, at this stage in our vaccination programme with so many still waiting for their second jab or completely unvaccinated, we are seeing cases going up so quickly.

It's also not a surprise that viruses mutate over time and we will very likely need booster vaccinations. We already have this situation with flu so it is not a new problem and we know how to deal with it (annual booster).

@hopeishere

The vaccine does not stop you getting covid. It reduces the chance of serious illness.

This isn’t entirely true. It does stop some people from catching it. Based on the original Wuhan strain Pfizer stopped 90% of infections entirely

"New variants" don't just automatically come from "foreign" places. Viruses mutate, even in the UK.

The vaccine is working but no vaccine is 100%. We can reach herd immunity through vaccination but we need to get enough people vaccinated for that to happen. And it will be interesting to see where that leaves children.

@Bumbl

What vaccine failure?

This.

The evidence suggests that for most people vaccines work.

The people currently infected in my area are children, young people and a few adults (not many and non in hospital). Now bearing in mind that children and most younger people are not vaccinated yet - that points to only people getting it being unvaccinated.....

As I understand, one cause of mutation is a mistake in copying original dna sequences. So more spread of virus means more replication/copying, thus the chance of new mutation increases.

Looks to me like the virus, once no longer novel, will indeed behave very much like flu and should be treated accordingly. Boosters for elderly and those in the vulnerable category. For the young and healthy, Western politicians feel so judged on Covid and have the coffers so they are vaccinating the young and healthy rather than sending those vaccines to the vulnerable in developing countries. So some of those vulnerable will die.
The whole fear of mutations etc is very sci-fi movie. We are never going to be able to vaccinate the entire world including all young everywhere. So if the mutations are going to happen they will happen and they will get here eventually.

@IrmaFayLear

I’m fully behind vaccination but I have seen posters being, to say the least, uncomplimentary about its efficacy.

Just because some anonymous poster says a vaccine isn't great it doesn't make it so.

Look at the official data from PHE, actual covid numbers, NHS site or research papers not what is posted on a forum.

Some people DESPARATELY don't want the vaccines to work. You know the ones that spread misinformation

A few posters arrive on Every Single Thread to say

• numbers of cases are sky rocketing.
• Delta is out of control.
• vaccinations are not sufficient because they don’t work on everyone.
• gazillions of people can’t have the vaccine and so remain vulnerable.
• long COVID is a massive problem.

But be aware some of them are the same person (you can tell by writing style).
Some are being paid to generate anxiety/anti government sentiment.
Some are clearly unstable.

It’s possible to think

• long COVID is a problem
• there will be a core of unvaccinated vulnerable
• the delta variant is indeed highly transmissible
• but that vaccines work and the data from PHE is very encouraging
• delta is spreading amongst the unvaccinated esp kids and under 30s
• that the strategy for spacing out the vaccines seems to have backfired.

So the long term picture is that we reach 70-80% vaccination (both doses)- we start vaccinating the 12-15 cohort (already happening in the US where I live) and that there is a possibility we will need boosters.
If there is a winter surge we might need to go back to some forms of social distancing and masks but ‘lockdown’ or ‘shelter in place’ as the US called it will not happen again.

Zero covid close the borders until it is controlled.

I would rather not vaccinate my 14 year old tbh. The info about heart inflammation after the Pfizer is concerning.

@roguetomato

As I understand, one cause of mutation is a mistake in copying original dna sequences. So more spread of virus means more replication/copying, thus the chance of new mutation increases.

Indeed the greater the number of virions the more likely we are to see mutations or variants.

I would be interested to hear from “the usual suspects”. Those who pop up to post the latest alarming news but also say vaccination is not much use given the variant problem.

These posters always put the wind up me and I would like to know what their prognoses are.

I've not read this anywhere - particularly the vaccine failure part. Vaccination is the way out. I think you simply to bun fight here.