Us and them- the vaccine. So much pressure

[ToTheLetter01]

Before i begin, i am not an anti vaxxer. Me and my DS have had all our jabs and we also have annual flu jabs.
However i feel such hostility and pressure from people who have had their vaccine for me to have it. The reason i do not want it at this moment is just because its still in the experimental stage until 2023 and i would like to know more long term data.
This is my choice, its my body and everyone should have the choice. Choice to have the vaccine and choice to not. I do not shame nor ridicule anyone for having it or not.
However i have felt so much pressure from friends and others in the wider public, media, government.

I feel like the nation is becoming split between us and them. ( vaccinated and unvaccinated). With things becoming unfair for people. Eg. may be able to travel and not quarantine if had vaccines, care home workers may be forced to have the vaccine. Now i get the point of view of they have had it and may be more "safe". But how is the ok in a freedom and rights point of view. As i stated freedom to do what you want with your body.

I feel like this world is becoming some kind of dystopian world. I miss my old life, i took all the freedom for granted. Its true that you don't realise how good it was until it's gone.
I don't want people to be hostile to me because of my choice to wait for long term data on the vaccine. Half of me wants to lie to people i've had it so they will not be stand off towards me.

Fewer than 400 people died of swine flu in the UK in 2009. Simply not comparable.

I didn’t say they were comparable. You asked when the last flu pandemic was and I told you. fwiw, it was thought to be a big deal at the time. Plenty of sensational reporting about every case and death.

So when was the common cold classified as a pandemic then?

Didn’t say it was.

@bumbleymummy

I didn’t say they were comparable. You asked when the last flu pandemic was and I told you. fwiw, it was thought to be a big deal at the time. Plenty of sensational reporting about every case and death.

You indicated they were comparable before. Still, it's not that important as it doesn't actually impact on the lack of social responsibility of vaccine refusers in the covid situation.

Plenty of it about every year though - and yes, immunocompromised people are at risk from it. Are you trying to argue that cold/flu is not a risk to immunocompromised people because they aren’t labelled as ‘pandemics’?

Comparable in that they are all a risk to immunocompromised people. Or are you arguing that they’re not?

Vulnerable older people will still be at higher risk than younger vaccinated people because it's known that the vaccine doesn't trigger as strong a response in aging or otherwise compromised immune systems.

Younger people will gain more immunity and protection than older people from the vaccine.

It's not as simple as saying 'vulnerable/old have been vaccinated' - even with vaccinations if numbers get high then a percentage of them will die.

Someone posted something like 30% of people who've died recently had had the 2 doses of vaccine - that's more proof of the effectiveness of the vaccine - older and vulnerable are who have been dying mostly from the start, that's still whose at risk even if we're all vaccinated as the vaccine offers them less protection.

The other side of that stat would be 70% of people who died were unvaccinated. Presumably that would also mean that they were younger as a cohort as the very old and vulnerable have been vaccinated first.

The other side of that stat would be 70% of people who died were unvaccinated. Presumably that would also mean that they were younger as a cohort as the very old and vulnerable have been vaccinated first.

No, some had one dose of the vaccine.

Thank you RTB

I guess it depends on how much you trust science in general and how much you know about how it works.

This is very particular to individuals and will affect the choices they make, which is why it is so important that this should be seen as a choice - rather than a fight. It's not just about how much we trust science (I don't so much, sadly, due to many mess ups with different family members over the years) but also how much we trust the government/media and the information we are being fed. My trust in both of these is extremely low at the moment also.

What also pisses me off is that as you say We don't know how long the vaccine gives us protection. Its untested for covid. is very true. But the media/government/scientists portrays the protection from Covid itself as being even more questionable. I see this as downright untrustworthy. It undermines my confidence in the whole program and it's propoganda tbh

Older people have less of an immune response to the vaccine PLUS they are old and frail and therefore perhaps even a milder version of the virus can kill them whereas for younger people in better health the reduced severity afforded by the vaccine would be was less threatening.

It is still the old and vulnerable at most risk even if vaccinated because less immune response to vaccine, poorer health, even a mild version might be enough to kill someone very frail.

It's worth bearing in mind that the stats on reduced severity, reduced occurrence, reduced fatality etc after vaccine will not be evenly spread across the population - there will still be more chance of those things amongst elderly and vulnerable.

the reduced severity afforded by the vaccine would be was less threatening.

They’re already afforded lower severity by their age/lack of comorbidities.

@MyBossIsATwat

This stance makes me think about a colleague who didn’t want to risk putting any of their money into the office lottery syndicate so opted out, but felt she should have an equal share of a pretty big win when it occurred, because she was part of the team. The rest of the team had all risked their money and contributed equally.

She took none of the risk, but wanted an equal share of the reward.

Does that sound fair to you?

Replace the risk of buying a ticket with the risk of getting jabbed. Replace sharing a lottery win equally with enjoying the full benefits of society opening up equally. Replace her team with the country.

Haven't rtft in case someone else said this but I bloody hope she didn't get anything! CF.

I'm nervous about the jab but have had my first 4-5 weeks ago. That said, I wholeheartedly agree that if you aren't willing to 'risk' it then you shouldn't feel hard done by to not have the same access to certain things as vaxxed people. I've nothing to say in attack - just don't expect the same 'rewards' and then nobody can say anything against you (as perfectly demonstrated by this quoted anecdote!)

But the elderly aren't was my point. You really can't get past you can you? The point is giving a shit about other people and wanting life to get back to normal as soon as possible not just about whether you think you are at risk from covid.

I'm ok with people going unvaccinated. They're uneducated and don't understand science or clinical trials l, but love to use the term "long-term data". You do know that long-term data refers to the efficacy data not the safety data right?!

Survival of the fittest.

• The vaccinated will not succumb to the virus (either won't be infected or will suffer mildly) and can travel and the world can open up again.

• The unvaccinated can succumb to the virus (they're own fault for not being vaccinated) and they can't travel. Seems fair. The problem for me is that they shouldn't be allowed to receive treatment if they get infected with COVID-19 - why should doctors and nurses risk treating them and why should resources be redirected to the unvaccinated.

Survival of the fittest. As old as the dawn of time.

I think the reward type language is misleading. THere's no reward just some consequences if you don't get vaccinated - ie. you're higher risk and therefore may be more restricted. Conviction involves sticking with something despite the fact that it may cost you.

@Cindy974

The vaccine fanatics are the real conspiracy theorists. They don’t believe in the immune system.

With all due respect* this is batshit. Tell the Mayans their immune systems weren't up to the job back in the 1500s.

*This is truly all the respect a comment like this deserves

It's an interesting idea that behind all the anti vax conspiracy shite are puppet masters who want these people to die rather than get immunised. Eg instead of the vaccine 'pushers' trying to kill you/sterilisers you/fill you with nanorobots it's actually the peddlers of anti vax misinformation who are trying to reduce the world's population.

Update today on vaccine efficacy, AZ and Pfizer are just about equal (21 days post jab2), in fact AZ just nudges ahead:

“Out of a sample of 297,493 people who had been vaccinated, 0.5 per cent were subsequently found to have a new infection of covid-19.

Among those who received the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, 0.8 per cent later became infected, compared with 0.3 per cent of those who received the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine.

From a sample of 210,918 adults who had received both doses of vaccine, just 0.1 per cent were subsequently found to have a new infection.”

Basically there’s only a 1 in 1000 chance of catching covid after two doses.

It is SO worth having it.

You have choice whether to have vaccine or not. If you can't travel you have no one to blame but yourself. Care workers and NHS should have vaccine and if not should be made redundant. We must as a nation do all we can to get rid of Covid 19.

A pharmacist told my partner that there were a lot less people suffering from flu. Does it tell you that masks work or does it tell you that they don't know what to take if they do feel ill with suspected covid?

When you get a sniffle you're told to self isolate immediately. Is it fact that no one had flu at all last year only covid. Does it mean that the masks aren't working?

Something doesn't sit well with me and I have had my first vaccine dose in my upper arm.

No critical stages have been missed
Except for the stage where they look for the long term effects

If you can't travel you have no one to blame but yourself.

Why because they cant travel 20 odd miles to get a vaccine are you serious. I waited until my local surgery popped up and then I grabbed an appointment a lot of people don't know that. They think that they have to travel 20 odd miles for a vaccine when all they have to do is wait.

Except for the stage where they look for the long term effects

For some reason we're not allowed to talk about this ...

Which also makes me feel very uncomfortable. My gut feeling tells me none of this is right.

Anyone who chooses not to have the vaccine (apart from those who medically can’t have it) is a selfish git. You want your freedom? Have the vaccine like everyone else. Otherwise, stop moaning.