Compulsory Vaccinations for Children

[Banjo36]

I put up a previous thread that I've not been able to even see one reply on because it was hidden and then deleted (may be better if the mods open a dialogue with the OP and allow retractions?). The video I was alluding to in the thread, after doing some quick googling, may have been prior to the pandemic in which Matt Hancock was discussing compulsory vaccinations for children (MMR). So, apologies for not checking first...however, the video was simply there to pose the question of whether you'd stand for compulsory vaccination for children? Considering the Health Secretary has previously been in favour of the idea for other vaccines is it beyond the realms of possibility that they won't try it with this vaccine?

@youshouldbeplotting

I had exactly the same thought. Worrying for the legal profession that one doesn’t know the definition of genocide!

[quote bumbleymummy]@speckledostrichegg how do you find out if they’re contraindicated? If you’ve had one child react badly to a having a vaccine, how do you determine if it’s safe for your other children?[/quote]
If you have a family history, then you need to ask to be referred to a paediatric immunologist for an individual recommendation about your DC's immunisation schedule.

@bumbleymummy

🙄 I think you’re the one being obtuse here. I’m not saying that severe reactions are common. I’m giving an example of why a parent may be reluctant to vaccinate subsequent children if an older child has had a bad reaction. I don’t think that makes them stupid or neglectful or incapable of Home Educating (or any other accusations thrown up on this thread).

I think you will find that numbers of parents worried about vaccinated their child because an older sibling had an anaphylactic shock is staggeringly low

When people talk about as you say, "a family history of reactions", they tend to be referring to things like autism, type 1 diabetes and other long term disorders which have categorically been proven to not to be caused by vaccination

Yeah, you’re definitely being obtuse. I was giving one example of why a parent may be reluctant to vaccinate that does not mean they are stupid, neglectful or incapable of home educating as other posters on this thread suggested. Hth.

This is not a goer.

Not the popular view here clearly, but yes, I believe in compulsory vaccination for everyone, kid and adults.

Will never happen though, so it's a pointless discussion.

No definitely against compulsory vaccinations. For anyone and not just children

I am completely against compulsory vaccinations. I do believe that evidence based information should be freely available, and choices must be respected no matter how much they differ from our own. I am a HCP and this has always been one of my core values.

I am against compulsory vaccination for children and adults. It's utterly wrong and unethical. Having personal autonomy over our own bodies is very important.

JCVI not recommending vaccination for under 18s -

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/jcvi-not-recommending-the-vaccination-of-under-18s-–-minister/ar-AAL69no

Hmm, interesting. I am very strongly in favour of individual choice and would never think that adults should be compelled to vaccinate. HOWEVER… it’s not children who choose whether they are vaccinated or not, it’s their parents. So in neither respect does the patient have any say in the matter. Then it comes down to whether the state or parents are better placed to choose… and given the increasing amount of antivaxx tripe, I suspect the answer may not be the parents…
Then it comes down to is it more important to protect children or for parents to have control. I think I come down on the side of protect where there is a real danger. Covid isn’t a real danger for kids… but measles is.
Overall, I think I would be in favour of a compulsory MMR vaccine.

@PurpleDaisies

This won’t happen. It’s not the way we do things in this country. Especially with the covid vaccines which arguably doesn’t have a huge risk/benefit ratio in favour of giving it to healthy kids.

Small Pox vaccine was compulsory.

This government will make life so difficult for anyone who has not had the jab it will for all intents and purposes be compulsory.

All ready started on some sectors.

I am very pro-vaccine. I'm in the pharma industry and have done vaccine research. But I do not agree with making vaccines compulsory.

1. Most importantly, we all have the right to refuse medical intervention. This is pretty fundamental, and there would be a massive backbench rebellion if Matt Hancock tried to make vaccines compulsory.

2. Pragmatism. There is no evidence that making vaccines compulsory will increase uptake. The British are very pro-vaccine anyway, uptake in groups 1 to 9 was over 95 %. If a vaccine was made compulsory there is the concern that people would start asking why and it would actually reduce participation in the vaccine programne.

As far as making vaccination necessary to access certain thing. Yes, I agree with the requirements to be vaccinated for certain jobs where an individual is regularly interacting with vulnerable people, adults can choose to not take a job in healthcare. No, I do not agree that children should be vaccinated to access education, the consequences of denying children education are too great.

Small Pox vaccine was compulsory.

Compulsory infant vaccination against smallpox was brought in in the 1853 vaccination act. It lead to widespread resistance and the foundation of anti-vaccination leagues until conscientious objection was introduced in 1898. Shall we go through other laws from 170 ago and use them as a basis for current government policy?

Then it comes down to whether the state or parents are better placed to choose… and given the increasing amount of antivaxx tripe, I suspect the answer may not be the parents…
Then it comes down to is it more important to protect children or for parents to have control

I would have though an education program dealing with ant vac myths and a proper talk with HCP to go through any concerns would be better approach and than assume a faceless bureaucracy was in better position or more concerned about welfare than most parents.

It is not about parental control but parents wanting the best for their child - it's just making sure they have correct information to come to the decisions rather than imposing one and leaving familes to deal with any negative outcomes.

Smallpox vaccines were compulsary but there was a campaign to stop that being so as there were fears of deaths -and by 1898 conscientious objectors were allowed to opt out.
academic.oup.com/shm/article-abstract/11/1/49/1620185?redirectedFrom=PDF - this seem to suggest by then England was able to mainintian dropping levels with reliance on surveillance and containment rather than just mass vaccinations.

@bumbleymummy

I don’t agree with compulsory vaccination for any person of any age with any vaccine.

You don't agree with any vaccinations for anyone do you? Or has your stance changed over your years on MN?

[quote bumbleymummy]JCVI not recommending vaccination for under 18s -

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/jcvi-not-recommending-the-vaccination-of-under-18s-–-minister/ar-AAL69no[/quote]
Interesting - I did wonder how the risk benefit would come out and I'll be watching what the Welsh Govenements reponse is.

@speckledostrichegg

The central tenet of their response - Lockdown - was copied from the Communist regime. People quibbling about whether we went as far as them with human rights abuses is like arguing who is the worst serial killer

And here we have it

When it comes down to it, the vast majority of these threads quickly unravel to reveal general anti-vax, anti-lockdown, COVID denying/minimising views based on leaps of logics

Speaking about leaps of logic: who's denied or minimised Covid? Who's suggested they're anti-vax? If you didn't understand the analogy I can help to lay it out more clearly for you. I'm saying Lockdowns are bad. I'm saying we should not have copied the policy response of a regime that doesn't care about its citizens, that sees them as pieces of a jigsaw (ie, the collective). Serial killers are bad, arguing over who is the worst is redundant because they're all bad. No one suggested the government is a serial killer. Analogies aren't supposed to be taken literally. If they were they'd be pointless. I hope that clears things up.

Lockdowns weren't invented by the communists. There were lockdowns in the US and the UK during the 1918 Flu Pandemic. And have you heard of Eyam?

@JaninaDuszejko

Small Pox vaccine was compulsory.

Compulsory infant vaccination against smallpox was brought in in the 1853 vaccination act. It lead to widespread resistance and the foundation of anti-vaccination leagues until conscientious objection was introduced in 1898. Shall we go through other laws from 170 ago and use them as a basis for current government policy?

I was simply pointing out that compulsory vaccination is not with out precedent in the UK.

It was a simple reply to another post.

However I personally believe that nothing is beyond this government.

Don't think I'm anti vaccination, I am already double jabbed. But if Boris said I had to have it then I would have made a stand

“You don't agree with any vaccinations for anyone do you? Or has your stance changed over your years on MN?”

@Geamhradh eh? I’ve nothing against vaccines in general. I don’t agree with compulsory vaccination for anyone though. That stance has never changed.

I don’t agree with compulsory vaccination for children or adults. People should have the choice,

@Banjo36 you started a thread posed as a discussion regarding whether vaccines (in general) should be made compulsory.

You're now bringing in the idea that .... The central tenet of their response - Lockdown - was copied from the Communist regime. People quibbling about whether we went as far as them with human rights abuses is like arguing who is the worst serial killer

I'm pointing out that as these threads often go, the poster has very set ideas regarding a whole host of views regarding COVID, which are often irrelevant to the original question posed, and yet emerge anyway.

This was after your thread yesterday was removed for being goady and misleading.

@bumbleymummy

“You don't agree with any vaccinations for anyone do you? Or has your stance changed over your years on MN?”

@Geamhradh eh? I’ve nothing against vaccines in general. I don’t agree with compulsory vaccination for anyone though. That stance has never changed.

I thought I'd saw you'd posted quite a few times how you and your children don't have vaccines as you're low risk?

very happy to be corrected as there's lot of posters of here with v similar usernames