Compulsory Vaccinations for Children

[Banjo36]

I put up a previous thread that I've not been able to even see one reply on because it was hidden and then deleted (may be better if the mods open a dialogue with the OP and allow retractions?). The video I was alluding to in the thread, after doing some quick googling, may have been prior to the pandemic in which Matt Hancock was discussing compulsory vaccinations for children (MMR). So, apologies for not checking first...however, the video was simply there to pose the question of whether you'd stand for compulsory vaccination for children? Considering the Health Secretary has previously been in favour of the idea for other vaccines is it beyond the realms of possibility that they won't try it with this vaccine?

I don't think the Covid vaccine should be made compulsory until more is known, and I doubt it will be.

Regardless of whether more is known, I don’t think vaccination should be (or will be) compulsory in this country. It’s not ethical.

Luckily the Brits are about as pro vaccination as you can get.

Ok, my previous question stands, speckled.

Or do you think a history of previous family reactions should be ignored?

I am a big cheerleader for the vaccines. Believe firmly that in all age groups they do more good than harm etc. Younger people may not die from covid often. However they can spread it and deaths of parents or loved ones are ultimately very harmful for them. Plus the possible economic issues from this pandemic staying at high levels is very harmful too. Then there is the possibility of them not having access to hospital treatment if needed.

However saying all that I am a firm believer in free choice when it comes to your own body. So no compulsory vaccinations are wrong. As an entry job requirement etc fine. Though not for existing staff and not for any age group either.

The fact that we don't have compulsory childhood vaccinations can mean some years the measles gets worrying. Even then I can't stomach the idea of making the MMR compulsory. The same goes for the covid jabs.

@bumbleymummy

Ok, my previous question stands, speckled.

Or do you think a history of previous family reactions should be ignored?

well that depends on what you mean by a "history of previous family reactions", specifically?

It won't happen.

Speckled, I just gave an example of an older sibling.

@bumbleymummy

Speckled, I just gave an example of an older sibling.

yes I understand a "history of previous family reactions" could be an older sibling

but what I'm asking is what do you mean by a "reaction" to a vaccine?

@PurpleDaisies

I don't think the Covid vaccine should be made compulsory until more is known, and I doubt it will be.

Regardless of whether more is known, I don’t think vaccination should be (or will be) compulsory in this country. It’s not ethical.

Luckily the Brits are about as pro vaccination as you can get.

Here I disagree with you, probably because I am not British and in my home country the basic vaccines are mandatory for school. Seems a good thing to me, but I realise I have a completely different outlook.

If your country could achieve a good level of vaccination without making that compulsory @MareofBeasttown, why would they need to be mandatory? People should have bodily autonomy.

No - never compulsory.

Are you asking what an adverse reaction to a vaccine is? you literally just gave example above - an allergic reaction. Certain vaccines may now be contraindicated for that older sibling but what about subsequent children? Depending on the severity of the first child’s reaction, parents may be reluctant to just go ahead without knowing if the vaccine is safe for that child.

It will never happen

I am a complete pro vaxxer. 100%. But we live in a country where we have choices. We take the information we are given and we make our own choice. I do not agree with compulsory vaccines for anyone. That is not the country we live in, well it wasn't.

@Roonerspismed

Well given my current profession (lawyer), clearly I scraped through.

Which might be a good thing when claims for personal injury start against vaccine companies - except they can’t because the government has said they won’t be liable.

Your child has no voice - please, I implore you, to see the bigger picture before we subject children to this.

Brilliant

I'm with you, @Roonerspismed. These threads are somewhere between hilarious and fucking terrifying.

@bumbleymummy

Are you asking what an adverse reaction to a vaccine is? you literally just gave example above - an allergic reaction. Certain vaccines may now be contraindicated for that older sibling but what about subsequent children? Depending on the severity of the first child’s reaction, parents may be reluctant to just go ahead without knowing if the vaccine is safe for that child.

I feel like you're being deliberately obtuse

Allergies to vaccine are relatively uncommon, and also don't have the strong genetic component you're suggesting.No clinician would recommend that a child not get their MMR because their sibling had an allergic reaction.

I actually gave the example of chemotherapy making some vaccines a risk for children, which would be a contraindication. But again, no HCP would say other family members shouldn't be vaccinated because of this.

So what "reactions" are you actually talking about?

@PurpleDaisies I think it is a complex issue , more complex than can be discussed on here. The US, for instance, thought it had measles under control with a good level of vaccination. But because they allowed exemptions for religious reasons, they had a bad outbreak in 2019.

I didn’t say there was ‘a strong genetic component’ or that clinicians wouldn’t advise it. I was giving an example of why a parent may decide not to give a vaccine if an older sibling had, for example, a severe allergic reaction. Telling them that subsequent children ‘are unlikely’ to react badly without any actual proof that the vaccine will be safe for them isn’t exactly reassuring. Despite what some arrogant HCPs may think, not everyone takes their word as gospel.

Of course it is not going to be compulsory. It is not even compulsory for NHS staff.
This kind of scare mongering is anti-vaxx in nature and/or consequence.

If you don't want to vaccinate your chid, don't vaccinate them.

Simple as that.

It is wrong to try to stop other people vaccinating their child with a vaccine that has been assessed as safe and effective by an INDEPENDENT and EXPERT authority - the MHRA.

If you don't vaccinate your child, you can't stop others doing so, that is horrible. Perhaps you worry that your child is missing out and want to make sure they are on an equal footing with other children (e.g. if vaccine passports ever come in, e.g. for university;). That is understandable. But it is plain evil to seek to deny other children medicines that could benefit them and are actually nothing to do with you, if you choose not to vaccinate your own child.

@bumbleymummy

I didn’t say there was ‘a strong genetic component’ or that clinicians wouldn’t advise it. I was giving an example of why a parent may decide not to give a vaccine if an older sibling had, for example, a severe allergic reaction. Telling them that subsequent children ‘are unlikely’ to react badly without any actual proof that the vaccine will be safe for them isn’t exactly reassuring. Despite what some arrogant HCPs may think, not everyone takes their word as gospel.

how common is an anaphylactic reaction to the MMR? Or other routinely given childhood vaccines?

regarding the "strong genetic component" - well that's the implication if you're worried about subsequent siblings also having anaphylactic shock.

@PurpleDaisies

These ideas are just not British but, unfortunately, since we copied the Chinese solution to the Pandemic we appear to have through our values out of the window.

There are all sorts of things from China’s handling of the pandemic we haven’t copied. The strength of their contact tracing and isolation measures for one.

I have zero concern about compulsory vaccination for children here.

The central tenet of their response - Lockdown - was copied from the Communist regime. People quibbling about whether we went as far as them with human rights abuses is like arguing who is the worst serial killer.

@Roonerspismed

Well given my current profession (lawyer), clearly I scraped through.

Which might be a good thing when claims for personal injury start against vaccine companies - except they can’t because the government has said they won’t be liable.

Your child has no voice - please, I implore you, to see the bigger picture before we subject children to this.

You are a lawyer, yet you throw the word "genocide" around without much thought? I thought lawyers were keen on using precise language.

Do people believe that if the government do go down this route it'd be met with mass civil disobedience?

The central tenet of their response - Lockdown - was copied from the Communist regime. People quibbling about whether we went as far as them with human rights abuses is like arguing who is the worst serial killer

And here we have it

When it comes down to it, the vast majority of these threads quickly unravel to reveal general anti-vax, anti-lockdown, COVID denying/minimising views based on leaps of logics

The central tenet of their response - Lockdown - was copied from the Communist regime. People quibbling about whether we went as far as them with human rights abuses is like arguing who is the worst serial killer.

Ok.

I’m out of this thread.

🙄 I think you’re the one being obtuse here. I’m not saying that severe reactions are common. I’m giving an example of why a parent may be reluctant to vaccinate subsequent children if an older child has had a bad reaction. I don’t think that makes them stupid or neglectful or incapable of Home Educating (or any other accusations thrown up on this thread).