Vaccination to be mandatory for care home staff

[Horseyhorsey3]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/15/covid-jabs-to-become-mandatory-for-care-home-staff-in-england

It will be interesting to see how this affects retention and recruitment of staff... Or not...

@Iquitit

My place is dangerously understaffed at the minute. Many severely autistic residents already have their staff ratios thin on the ground. I work for a National third sector care provider. This will be the final push for many people that I work with. I have absolutely no idea how my manager will be able to retain staff if they make the vaccine mandatory for care workers.

@MercyBooth

I had a bad migraine the day after my first AZ vaccine. I took the day off and I did not get paid.

@MercyBooth

Generally no, care staff only get statutory sick pay. £95? per week payable after the first three days of unpaid sick leave.

There may be some exceptions where the business will pay full pay as sick pay, but I doubt it.

2 straightforward Covid vaccination questions:

Q1. You are an elderly resident with medical vulnerabilities because of age in a care home - what would your you prefer from those in close daily repeated extended duration indoor physical proximity contact in an ongoing pandemic with ever more dangerous and contagious variants? How much do you want these workers to care for your medical needs to utilise all Covid risk mitigation interventions.

Q2. What do those working in elderly care homes who wish not to be vaccinated (pre recent legal requirements) think if their health is dangerously compromised when infected with more contagious variants? Would you have regrets for being in very poor life changing or critical health which may have been prevented if vaccinated and if hospitalised because your Covid disease is more severe being unvaccinated - do you mind if a non vaccinated healthcare worker come into close extended duration and repeated physical contact with you? If you would have otherwise survived Covid (long post Covid syndrome or even death) if vaccinated - do you have any regrets for being anti vaccination and possibly passing on the same to close family and other contacts?

Genuine questions as trying to understand the mindset of the anti vaxx in case there is something that needs addressing.

I believe in all medical interventions which is proven to be more beneficial than dangerous. I also believe in educated conscientious choice and not compulsion. We need to educate and be absolutely transparent to recognise all possible credible data sources and research. There may will be exceptional case by case exemptions and so for this minority there can not be any enforcement of any medical intervention where the disadvantages outweighs the advantages.

Taken from the daily mail article, I can't seem to copy/paste the link.

Despite care workers being among one of the top priority groups for Covid jabs and being eligible since December, latest figures show just two thirds of them have had both doses of the vaccine.

Two thirds have had both doses. So one third are currently not fully vaccinated. I only had my second dose in May. Where are the figures showing those who are waiting for the second dose? Where are the figures showing those who are waiting for the 4 week window to pass after testing positive to get the vaccine? Those who are eligible and willing but have not been offered or alternative arrangements made for them to be vaccinated because they couldn't be vaccinated at the time it was offered?
This early in a vaccination program that is far from perfect in its roll out, why are we being led to the assumption that 1/3 have refused?!

Announcing the move in the Commons today, Mr Hancock said the Government will 'ensure mandation as a condition of deployment for staff in care homes'.

How about ensuring mandation of basic bloody IC measures and PPE!

The Financial Times today reported ministers are also debating whether to make flu jabs compulsory for the same staff.

Well, offering it first, on a national scale might be a start?!

[quote Chillychangchoo]@Iquitit

My place is dangerously understaffed at the minute. Many severely autistic residents already have their staff ratios thin on the ground. I work for a National third sector care provider. This will be the final push for many people that I work with. I have absolutely no idea how my manager will be able to retain staff if they make the vaccine mandatory for care workers.[/quote]
What you're saying here confirms my fears. Nobody who's in favour of this policy is really engaging with the staffing shortage issue.

@Chillychangchoo

I work in a supported living scheme with service users who have severe learning disabilities and associated mental health conditions. I’m the only support worker who has been vaccinated. I’ve asked my colleagues why they don’t want the vaccine and the reasons are varied, here are a few off the top off my head,

1. it’s against my human rights (times two)

2. I’m worried about my fertility (times four)

3. the vaccine is also killing people (times two)

4. we will all die in ten years after taking it due to population control.

I really get on with my colleagues but their ability to actually read correct information and use critical thinking is practically non existent. It’s a complete lack of education, trust and suspicion in authorities.

Good luck trying to mandate it we cannot get any staff as it is. Most staff leave within days due to the poor conditions we work in (regular 15 hour shifts with one 15 minute break) dangerous hoisting, lack of training, huge blame culture and the list goes on.

I just do not know how my managers will be able to get any staff as most people have said they would rather leave this job and go into retail or basically anything that doesn’t involve wiping arses for minimum wage.

It’s the service users who will also miss out but then they already do in a multitude of ways under this government.

This - people have so little awareness of what goes on in the care sector and how it's young, minimum wage workers who don't need this who will leave and there won't be anyone to look after everyone's vulnerable relatives.

But the narrative is that these workers are the reason we're still under restrictions and aren't they unpleasant making us all suffer if they don't comply....when it's often the same people saying 'we need to learn to live with it' and #imdone - 🙄🙄

@MercyBooth

IF a care worker has a slight reaction to the vaccine and has to take time off will they be paid

Has that been put in as part of the mandation Mercy?

@Hoppinggreen read the post properly. They were citing reasons from care sector colleagues for them deciding not to be vaccinated - not listing evidence ffs 🙄

@MercyBooth I'm sorry I misread what you wrote and thought you'd said they will be paid and wondered if it'd been added as a condition of the mandation.
In answer to what you actually wrote, currently no, SSP after 3 days (I think it is) and around £95.

I have no idea. Should be full pay IMO

I think people should have a choice, however o would be very annoyed if refusal was because of a political view point and even more annoyed if it was compulsory for foreign travel and all of a sudden these registered changed their minds in order to go on holiday.

Plus care workers are still going to be most exposed to infection due to the nature of their job so not quite sure why they would not get the vaccine? It’s to protect themselves primarily anyway

@neckache

Agreed. It’s a hard, physical, grafty job that’s very often done by young women who could quite easily walk into another entry level job with better working conditions and quite possibly better pay.

For the majority of my colleagues it’s absolutely not a vocation. Don’t get me wrong they wouldn’t harm the residents but they’re only there for the pay check. The majority of my colleagues categorically do not want to be there. I absolutely dread to think of the standard of care this will now result in as the whole sector is already at breaking point.

Should read refusers

[quote Chillychangchoo]@Iquitit

My place is dangerously understaffed at the minute. Many severely autistic residents already have their staff ratios thin on the ground. I work for a National third sector care provider. This will be the final push for many people that I work with. I have absolutely no idea how my manager will be able to retain staff if they make the vaccine mandatory for care workers.[/quote]
I'm sorry you and your residents are facing that, it confirms my fears about staffing in an already understaffed sector.

@Unsure33 I will ask again How much do you think care workers are paid?

We get paid minimum wage however it’s not unusual for me to get paid double time, or even triple time these days depending how desperate my manager is to get boots on the ground. Sometimes they have no other choice but to entice you in for overtime with extra pay.

Obviously I expressed myself badly, apologies
I meant where are the care workers who gave those reasons getting that (ridiculous) Information from?

@Hoppinggreen

Well obviously they’re not getting their information from reputable sources. For them it makes no difference. If Bob down the road says it’s true then it must be. That’s why I noted the lack of critical thinking skills earlier up the thread. Hearts of gold don’t get me wrong but I do despair at times.

Anyway, it’s not the answer. All well and good saying you want care workers to be vaccinated but what happens when the shit really does hit the fan and staffing gets even worse than it already is now? I tell you what happens…. Old ladies sit in their own shit for days on end getting pressure sores and getting neglected.

That’s the hard cold reality of this.

This reminds me how years ago, people with learning disabilities had things decided for them, as in their best interests.

@MorriseysGladioli

This reminds me how years ago, people with learning disabilities had things decided for them, as in their best interests.

Years ago? Now mate.

Is the mindset of a typical healthcare worker in say an elderly care centre that militant to say “right that’s it I don’t do medical science so let’s all walk out, forget the vaccination” and hold the most frail and medically vulnerable to ransom. Surely this is perhaps far from in keeping with duty of care medical ethics.

Additionally, if these roles in the private care home sector are minimum wage are you not conscious that by definition other sectors would tend to offer a higher financial reward if that is your motivation?

We are now in potentially dire economic circumstances but with Brexit the UK has more direct control over immigration policies. Dare I suggest in an outward looking global Britain - should there be an overwhelming under supply of necessary trained medical care labour - that this may be (as evident from the current NHS staffing) an opportunity for others globally to be selected to join our already diverse healthcare sector where the staff original heritage is immaterial but professional care, skill and ethics are. The USA for instance (from recent memory) has looked to the Philippines for specific labour requirements.

Hard of thinking is one matter but the fact that vulnerable elderly patients are in your care and look to you for your help is another. Earlier in the pandemic it is recognised that the elderly care home sector has been negligently sacrificed. We all are get old one day! What if no one is vaccinated? What’s the game plan? Survival of the fittest?

god i don't give shit about covid but anyone saying that this rule is wrong needs their heads checking

these are the most vulnerable people in society - if others want to act like nob heads that's fine but they don't get to endanger others. Some jobs must mandate it as part of their duty of care in same way occupational jabs are needed in other lines of work

They also have a choice - they can leave. The fact furlough is ending despite jobs opening up - i expect they'll be thousands out of work soon

jobs not opening up

god i don't give shit about covid but anyone saying that this rule is wrong needs their heads checking

Sounds legit you don't give a shit about covid but want people vacinated against it, makes lots of sense.