Vaccination to be mandatory for care home staff

[Horseyhorsey3]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/15/covid-jabs-to-become-mandatory-for-care-home-staff-in-england

It will be interesting to see how this affects retention and recruitment of staff... Or not...

Vaccine mandatory for care workers yet thousands of footballs fans can travel to amber list countries to watch football.
Turkey v Wales live now with plenty of Welsh supporters.

How much do posters on here think care workers get fucking paid. We have had comments like "financial reward" and now "oh they will do it when they realise they cant go on foreign holidays" FFS

It’s his choice! Why would he have to take one if he doesn’t want it?

@loulouljh

Appalling decision...a sector that already struggles for staff.

I think what they'll do is make care home work an option for offenders who are sentenced to community service, that would bring staff levels up quickly!

My aunt is in a care home and I have immense respect for all the staff who work there. Some of the jobs they have to do are completely stomach churning and the abuse they get from some of the dementia patients is shocking. These workers should be paid a decent hourly wage and what they seem to receive is not much above the minimum wage. It’s a disgrace.

I'm devastated, I work in a care home, I do care about my clients, i don't want to lose my job. I have had various issues relating to my reproductive health and i am trying TTC, I want my body to be as natural as possble to have a better chance of having a healthy pregnancy. This vaccine is a trial on a temporary licence and is being mandated...let that sink in! How scary!

I dont think im being selfish or dont care about my cleints they are like my familly. I'm terrified of having it, im terrified of losing my job.

My basic human right has been taken away from me, i cant even tell you how terrifying that is, I keep having a pang of dread.

@whymewhyme
You are not being selfish at all. If the vulnerable have been vaccinated and the staff are tested 3 times weekly then that’s enough.

I think what they'll do is make care home work an option for offenders who are sentenced to community service, that would bring staff levels up quickly!

And that seemingly will seem to be the preferred option.
Protecting the vulnerable my arse.

@Arrowheart

Good. If you work in care and don't have the vaccine you simply don't care.

Oh, I wasn't aware that the vaccine also had the qualities required to be a good carer mixed into it too.

It's perfectly possible to care for others, and yourself.
The way it's going, carers are going to need to prioritise themselves, because nobody else is going to.

Whilst part of me can understand the thinking behind the policy, I don't think its been properly thought through. Although most care home residents/people who receive care in their own home would have been double vaccinated, what happens to those who have chosen not to be? Are they going to be refused care? Will they be asked to leave their home? Are carers able to refuse to care for them?

What about the family visitors? Will they have to be fully vaccinated before they can visit? Are we going to ban residents from spending weekends/days with their family/friends if they have not been vaccinated?

Social care is already under staffed. If only 10% won't receive the vaccine and decide to quit or move into non caring roles presumably for same pay (which will be more desirable for some). There won't be enough carers. People previously receiving visits of 3 or 4 times a day, may only get 1 visit, care homes may have to operate at unsafe staffing levels, putting the residents life at risk! For those at home their relatives may be asked to plug the gap. And im guessing most aren't willing to take the pay cut, move closer to their family members, wipe faeces, wash dentures, cut up food and assist them eating!!

A relative of mine works in a care home that are literally crying out for staff. They have been advertising everywhere for months for staff.
This Friday they are holding interviews they have had 5 people phone and cancel already as they are not going to be getting the vaccine so don’t want to start a job that they may have to leave in the next few weeks if it becomes mandatory. My relative is literally on the verge of quitting herself as she is literally on her knees from covering the staff shortage.

It’s a terrible idea and I hope it doesn’t become mandatory.

@Bargebill19

In that case, they need to make ALL visitors, volunteers and nhs staff visiting the homes have compulsory vaccinations as well. ALL residents also need to be vaccinated to protect staff. Covid vaccinations neither stops transmission between people or makes it less serious when transmitted. It only means you are likely to be less ill if you catch it.

Yes I’ve had both my vaccinations. Yes I believe in vaccinations programs.

Vaccines do reduce the chances of catching covid. Vaccines do reduce the risk of transmitting covid to others. Vaccines do mean that, even if unlucky enough to still catch it, your likelihood of being as seriously ill is also greatly reduced.

I wonder how long it's going to take the tribunals to deal with all the unfair dismissal claims? As far as I could tell from employment law Twitter, the matter isn't straightforward and there are likely to be test cases.

I don't necessarily disagree with it - I get why mass vaccination is important.

But anyone who thinks it's only care sector and then maybe NHS is deluded. Once it's pushed through for care sector, every public sector role will be in line for mandatory vaccinations.

@whymewhyme
Its disgraceful. I say that as an NHS doctor fully in favour of vaccinations. Its appalling you're feeling/being forced into it.

@Bargebill19

It hasn’t been proved that it lessens the severity of infections - if it really does so that, then why have all these covid rules about distancing, masks, limiting contact, isolation if infected, ppe etc? If vaccinations truly make the virus less virulent and dangerous - there wouldn’t be a problem in just treating like you would any cold.

How can you tell if covid is brought in by a staff member who is vaccinated, or a non vaccinated volunteer or family or friend or nhs staff or by a resident (vaccinated or not) who went outside to a hospital appointment or family day out? You can’t. So if staff have to be vaccinated, so should everyone else. Especially if you believe that a vaccine renders the virus to become less virulent or less transmittable. It’s either mandatory FOR ALL or not at all.

Because as the moment not enough of the population have had both vaccines with the 2-3 week after the second.

Hence why we have the month delay before phase 4 is looked at again.

To allow more people over 40 to be double vaccinated.

And to allow more adults 18+ to have had their first vaccine.

It has been shown on numerous occasions to reduce likelihood of catching it, reduce likelihood of transmission and reduce severity of illness in those vaccinated. This begins with a reduction after one vaccine and increases after two.

Covid is not just a cold for too many people to let it rip through the unvaccinated adults. I think the last year and more has shown this surely.

@PinkG0ld

If the vaccines are so effective, why do the vaccinated fear the unvaccinated?

I don't for myself particularly.

However we know that, like many vaccines, that in some CEV and elderly people the vaccines will be less effective due to the nature of their health conditions. There are also a small minority of people who cannot be vaccinated.

Therefore others should be vaccinated to help protect those who either cannot be vaccinated or those for whom the c]vaccinations won't be as effective.

@Abraxan at best by 50%.
But that isn’t the point. If you only make it mandatory for care home staff to be vaccinated, the virus can still enter via other people who go in and out of multiple
Homes and all residents should be vaccinated or not allowed in homes.
Unless I’ve missed something the virus doesn’t just infect care home staff and residents.
What has been proposed is an insult heaped upon insult in this entire fiasco.

For those of you so in favour of this - please just think, it could be you who is forced to have a vaccine you may not want or be able to have. Which sector will the government decide to hit next?
I’m not anti vax. I am pro choice. This doesn’t need to be made law. Business can make it a condition of their own employment contracts (like a certain plumber) or not.

healthy people have to take a risk with their health in order to protect unhealthy people

[quote Bargebill19]@Abraxan at best by 50%.
But that isn’t the point. If you only make it mandatory for care home staff to be vaccinated, the virus can still enter via other people who go in and out of multiple
Homes and all residents should be vaccinated or not allowed in homes.
Unless I’ve missed something the virus doesn’t just infect care home staff and residents.
What has been proposed is an insult heaped upon insult in this entire fiasco.

For those of you so in favour of this - please just think, it could be you who is forced to have a vaccine you may not want or be able to have. Which sector will the government decide to hit next?
I’m not anti vax. I am pro choice. This doesn’t need to be made law. Business can make it a condition of their own employment contracts (like a certain plumber) or not.[/quote]
Do you have a peer reviewed source for the 50% quote as that isn't one I have seen in the scientific papers, etc as yet other than you mentioning it on MN?

The stats I've read have been inconclusive due to the newness of so many people having been double vaccinated. the data has been showing the effectiveness in reducing transmission to be growing with more bits of published research, as more is known and it is studied longer. It also varies between virus strains and between the different vaccines a little. The effectiveness in reducing transmission and likelihood of catching covid also varies between patients. We know that some CeV and elderly patient don't get as good a results from them due to specific health conditions.

And th even if it was 'just 50%' 50% is quite a lot when it comes to medical matters.

No vaccine is ever 100% effective.

For those of you so in favour of this - please just think, it could be you who is forced to have a vaccine you may not want or be able to have.

When I worked in a prison I had to go and get a hepatitis vaccine. 🤷‍♀️ I was also expected to have had some others, though to be fair, no one checked my records. They trusted staff to be up front.

It will never be an issue for me as it stands as I am very much pro vaccine. I got it as soon as I was eligible, as did dh and teen Dd. I don't actually no one any one who has refused it. The 2 people I know who were vocal about not having it initially have now since had it anyway, just in the quiet.

I do think it should ideally be addressed in a different way to try and get behind why some sectors are more likely to refuse it and to work with those sectors to raise the vaccine profile and raise trust in the people in those areas. Trying to understand why these sectors are more willing to believe a social media anti vaccine post than a scientific finding, for example. If that was done then maybe making it mandatory would be less likely.

Therefore others should be vaccinated to help protect those who either cannot be vaccinated or those for whom the c]vaccinations won't be as effective.

But only care workers. Not

• other HCPs that have close contact with them
• not family/friends who come into the home, or take them out/into social situations
• social workers
• other residents

Covid doesn't know the difference and it doesn't care either.
If it's about protecting the vulnerable then it should be anyone who is having contact with care homes and has the potential to introduce it into the setting.
Only it's not about that at all, because this would be at the bottom of a list of things that would improve the protection of the vulnerable from covid, but those things cost money, the money for this has already been spent/pledged so it's lip service and no more.

Incidentally, I've noticed a couple of posters on this thread and others around this topic shouting the odds about selfish care workers, have also commented on other threads about not wearing masks, or 'making their own risk assessment' regarding what they do. Well, you're the reason we need to be vaccinated aren't you? Because you don't know if the person you've just brushed past in the supermarket is a care worker. Not so keen to have small freedoms taken away, but very keen for others to have larger ones taken away.

Hep B vaccine is so you dont catch it if you're bitten by a patient/prisoner! Not the other way round!

Incidentally, I've noticed a couple of posters on this thread and others around this topic shouting the odds about selfish care workers, have also commented on other threads about not wearing masks, or 'making their own risk assessment' regarding what they do. Well, you're the reason we need to be vaccinated aren't you? Because you don't know if the person you've just brushed past in the supermarket is a care worker. Not so keen to have small freedoms taken away, but very keen for others to have larger ones taken away.

WOW. This is interesting!