Vaccination to be mandatory for care home staff

[Horseyhorsey3]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/15/covid-jabs-to-become-mandatory-for-care-home-staff-in-england

It will be interesting to see how this affects retention and recruitment of staff... Or not...

Unfortunately those people who are so vulnerable that the jab isn’t enough protection are vulnerable to many things beyond covid.

They could end up being seriously ill or dying from flu or norovirus, or even a common cold.

I am fully vaccinated, but covid isn’t the only thing the world that harms people. So would having inappropriate people working in care homes, so will under staffing.

If they really cared they would provide decent PPE, pay decent wages for excellent carers who are well educated in infection control. Pay proper sick pay so people can stay off work when they have a cold or upset stomach. Ensure good staffing levels so people taking sick leave isn’t a problem.

Noone seemed to give a shit about flu jabs not being mandatory....

Evidently there is no 100% protection but that said the more protection the better especially for by definition the most medically vulnerable by age.

What would a centurion in care home prefer? The best possible health security or take a chance to be indifferent to extra potential risk when medical interventions as administered do help?!

This is a bit like fire fighters who may not like heat! It’s a bit of an inconvenience professionally paid to run towards fires to save lives as others run away from obvious dangers.

We all know about the premature negligent mass manslaughter that occurred in the Covid toxic “care” homes throughout the UK earlier in this pandemic. So with that in mind as we will all be old one day - ensure the most vulnerable are treated with the upmost health and safety.

@Buttons4491

I work in a care home in which all of our workers and residents have been offered vaccines not everyone has taken up on the offer of these vaccines...

If the government are suggesting healthcare workers are required to have a vaccine then shouldn't the residents also be required to have a vaccine, their visitors and anyone entering a care home?

While I totally agree with you (also I'm a care home worker) and if it truly is about protecting the vulnerable then to do that, anyone who has access to the home needs to be vaccinated to ensure the protection is as wide spread as possible, it goes against every bit of training I've ever done on rights, choices and inclusion to effectively deny someone care, or access to their family, because they or the family are not vaccinated.

That's why I'm very conflicted about this, and yes I do feel that care workers are being made easy targets around this, with the mantra "It's to protect the vulnerable" being shouted again and again.

If you want to protect the vulnerable then all measures (including those I've mentioned in past posts around IC and PPE) need to be addressed, including vaccination for anyone entering a care setting.
But on the other hand where does that leave us in respect of the right to choose?

@Crabbyboot

Usually you have to have certain jabs to work in particular departments in a hospital. If you don't want the jab then you don't work at that department in the hospital. I'm pretty sure nurses of all branches need to have a hepatitis jab as well. This situation is no different to that except people are being hysterical about it. We need to protect the vulnerable.

No vaccination has ever been even suggested as good practice in care, never mind required or mandatory. It's never been seen as important enough before. It's never been a requirement in care.

The only people being hysterical about it are those who aren't willing to listen to the points that are being raised and discuss them, but would rather shout that care workers who don't trot off to get their vaccination with a big smile and saying they'll do anything to protect their residents, all bright eyed and bushy tailed, that they're in the wrong job and that's the discussion over.

We're entitled to question, we're entitled to raise valid concerns and want them addressed, we're entitled to have our concerns answered. We're humans not robots.

Terrifying and dystopian.

It is also disproportionally women (the majority of social care staff) being told what to do with their bodies.

@baldafrique

Noone seemed to give a shit about flu jabs not being mandatory....

Interestingly in Canada, generally looked to as a country with good workers rights etc, 'flu vaccine is mandatory for many HCP roles

This is certainly not a new policy

@baldafrique

Noone seemed to give a shit about flu jabs not being mandatory....

Flu hasn't caused a world wide pandemic

Hope this helps

Flu hasn't caused a world wide pandemic

Hope this helps

It does sweep through care homes and kill several elderly and vulnerable people each flu 'season' though, and put the NHS under pressure.
Vaccination against flu would be protecting those people - and that's the whole point really, it's never been deemed important enough before to create a vaccine program to protect workers and residents against things like flu or hepatitis - it's still not, only covid will be deemed mandatory.
If it truly were about protecting the vulnerable, wouldn't a vaccination program for covid, flu and other things be a better idea?
I haven't ever even been asked if I had vaccinations like tetanus, TB and the like that you get in childhood to work in care.
That's how much importance has been placed on it and how 'visible' vaccination was in care until now.
This is just an attempt at looking like something is being done, when in fact, the status quo will be exactly the same.

If someone works in a care home and needs to be ordered to get vaccinated, they shouldn't be there in the first place - someone who is simply there for the money and has no concern whatsoever for the people they're supposed to care for.

I'd rather some financial incentive rather than the threat of the sack. The risk is more to the carer than no doubt maxed up residents and what about visitors will they have to show vax status before visiting ?

@strangeshapedpotato

If someone works in a care home and needs to be ordered to get vaccinated, they shouldn't be there in the first place - someone who is simply there for the money and has no concern whatsoever for the people they're supposed to care for.

So people who work in care homes shouldn’t want bodily autonomy?

Can people not care for others AND also want the choice about what’s injected into them?

I’m fully vaccinated, as soon as I was able to be. But it was my choice, my hand wasn’t forced with threat of unemployment.

Carers now have no real choice. They have the vaccine or they will lose their jobs. They could lose their homes, their kids could go hungry if they don’t submit to the vaccine.

That’s not true consent to a medical procedure is it?

@strangeshapedpotato

If someone works in a care home and needs to be ordered to get vaccinated, they shouldn't be there in the first place - someone who is simply there for the money and has no concern whatsoever for the people they're supposed to care for.

Agree as spot on! Not that “care” home staff is a career choice for those incentivised by financial reward. Surely those in healthcare do it to help people become healthy and care homes to offer care? Other professionals sectors are where the big money is made. That said doctors and surgeons plus many specialists medical professionals requiring years of study, training and qualifications at the highest level are not paid according to their time investment and talent. No wonder many opt for market rate private work.

Hope this helps.
Because there certainly have been flu pandemics.

It's cowardly to go after care home staff first

Why? Surely, along with medical staff, they're dealing with the most vulnerable people of all?

I was initially against this but having given this some thought I've decided this is fair enough. They work with the most vulnerable and in not getting vaccinated are putting those in their care at risk. It's just selfish of them not to. I think NHS staff should have to have it too. You couldn't have these people working in these settings without standard vaccination like TB, Polio and Diphtheria so why is Covid any different?

@Puzzledandpissedoff

It's cowardly to go after care home staff first

Why? Surely, along with medical staff, they're dealing with the most vulnerable people of all?

Because care home staff are less likely to have union support behind them.

Had they gone after NHS staff first their would have been a huge kick back from the unions. But if the care sector is compliant when they move on to the NHS and schools the unions will have a harder fight.

They have worked at great risk through this pandemic (I'm double vaxed and would urge all to do so) but to penalize doubters in that profession when probably all the patients will be maxed to the max and most of the staff is abhorrent and totally disproportionate.

Flu hasn't caused a world wide pandemic

Uhhh - yes it has, on several occasions! Why do you think the govt had flu as it's major pandemic plan?

Examples:

1918 - Spanish flu (H1N1)
1957-58 - Asian flu (H2N1)
1968-69 - Hong Kong flu (H3N2)
2009 - Swine flu (H1N1)

If I were you, I'd give influenza a bit more respect.

That’s not true consent to a medical procedure is it?

Nope.

Unless you pop off for your vaccination like a good little minimum wage, under appreciated skivvy to society, nodding and smiling as you go, unless you're willing to give up anything and everything for the people you care for, and not rock the boat, ask questions or want more education and knowledge around trying to protect vulnerable people then apparently, you're in the wrong job.

Well there's plenty of vacancies right now across my area for all these selfless individuals to go for and fill, and there'll be more if and when this kicks in. Suggest they go and do it and show the rest of us (vaccinated but apparently still in the wrong job because we have gasp opinions) how it's done.

I'd rather some financial incentive rather than the threat of the sack.

I wasn't paid for attending work to get either of my vaccines, nor am I when I need to attend (as in I'm not on shift at the time) for my weekly PCR test. It'd be a start just to do that. Or at least pay travel expenses, it costs me to go and do that.
But I guess me thinking that means I am just in it for the money and don't really care to some people? And that 'caring' means happily giving up time with my family, at a premium because of the hours I've worked due to covid, and to expect payment for that time means I don't. Let's just ignore that care homes are a business and as such they make a profit and should be paying for their employees time as much as any other, instead of trading on good will or shaming of people to get what's needed, calling it a vocation to justify that happening.

As someone who's a young professional in the health and social care sector, my main concern with all of this is that the long term side effects of the vaccine aren't known. They can't possibly be known because of the short amount of time we've had to study the effects. Therefore, I think it's immoral to force people into taking the vaccine, as they aren't able to provide them with this information.

Yes carers in care homes could go and find another job if they aren't happy with being forced into getting the vaccine, but I do think that's quite an inhumane way of going about things, and really could risk good quality carers being forced to leave due to having their own reasonings behind not wanting the vaccine at that time.

I know of several carers who are absolutely brilliant at their role and care immensely about their residents, that would leave their post if it came to them being forced to take the vaccine, purely because of the effect this could potentially have on their lives later on. With the risk of Covid being so low for young people, it's not surprising they aren't jumping for joy to take the vaccine where some risks could well be unknown.

Also, I believe this is largely due to the vast numbers of deaths that occurred in care homes during the first wave. However, we all know this was largely due to the fact that hospitals were discharging Covid patients back to care homes without a second thought, and this therefore led to the mass outbreaks and deaths.

I'm not an anti-vaxxer by any means, but I don't believe the Covid-19 vaccine can really be compared to a long standing vaccine like that of the ones for Hepatitis B.

@bollihigh I see your point but care home staff will also have contributed to the spread of Covid19 through the care homes through no fault of their own of course. There is now a vaccine available and they have a duty to care to have it.

I love how we’ve gone from selfless people who have worked at great personal risk through a pandemic to care for your elderly and disabled relatives, to selfish bastards who shouldn’t be in care. All because we are questioning the ethics of forcing people to be vaccinated or they are fired!

The majority of us (70%) HAVE had the vaccine (and more have had the 1st dose) The lower rates of staff vaccination is in London, I don’t know why. Maybe care home workers are more likely to be of an ethnicity that has poor uptake of the vaccine in general. Which is the fault of institutional racism in public services leading to lack of trust. Not selfishness.

You couldn't have these people working in these settings without standard vaccination like TB, Polio and Diphtheria so why is Covid any different?

Couldn't you? Been in care a long time and I've never even been asked if I've had those vaccinations, never mind needed proof as a condition of employment.
And I've worked for some big care companies too.