Can we really just stop life to preserve every life?

[MrsHastingslikethebattle]

Everyone whom I know is more scared of the Governments reaction to Covid, than Covid itself.

The vaccinations are the most protection we are ever going to get, and yes people will still die.

Why can't we just accept that people die of Covid like we accept thousands each year who have died through flu and other preventable diseases?Millions and millions of people have died through smoking and alcohol, costing millions to the NHS. Yet we haven't banned them?
Viruses mutate and Covid is no different. They're will be variants indefinitely. Are we to cower behind our sofas every time a new one is announced?
The media in full force say how serious the new strain is, then lo and behold, weeks later it shows the vaccines are still offering high protection.
Public Health have started there is no correlation between the Indian variant and hospital admissions.
There is also a report that over 80% of Covid infections were caught in hospital, yet hospitality is are still targeted with table service, masks and track and trace.

When did this become about cases? not deaths and hospital admissions like it was to begin with?

The media and government have done well to completely scare people into submission. This is no longer about protection, its control and power.

Mumsnet is the only place is seems where people want these restrictions to carry on.

Everyone in real life has had enough and can see through this bullshit for what it really is!

#Imdone

Re 2 tables. Some places only accept bookings of 4 or more, so for 7 people, no, they couldn't book 2 tables. At my son's Uni (campus), it was worse. The campus bars/restaurants only accepted bookings of 6 people, nothing more, nothing less. There are 8 in my son's flat (which is a household). The Uni campus security guards wouldn't even let them walk around the campus in a group of 8 - despite them able to prove they lived together via key fobs. They couldn't go for a drink/meal together because only 6 could go at a time. Some days, more than 6 wanted to go, other days, they couldn't get 6 together due to other commitments. People who think that's normal or acceptable are bonkers. If we're going to have some kind of restrictions for the longer term, then at least they need to be logical - at the very least, we need to stop the nonsense that makes no sense.

People have lost their savings though, their opportunities to get on the property ladder, their businesses and their jobs.

Actually research has suggested lots of people are saving more. (Not that I personally think the pandemic was worth it).

The lost businesses and jobs are due to the UK's failure to contain including wide open borders that let in any and all new strains.

It's particularly awful for families where one or the only breadwinner has died or no longer able to work due to Long Covid.

All the countries that took sensible containment measures have much healthier economies than us.

The lost opportunity to get on the property ladder is down to chancellor, Rishi Sunak's ridiculous ill thought out stamp duty holiday. It pushed the house prices up further out of reach.

If we're going to have some kind of restrictions for the longer term, then at least they need to be logical - at the very least, we need to stop the nonsense that makes no sense.

You're right about that.

@Kanitawa

The law has temporarily changed Maybe it won’t be temporary. Covid isn’t going anywhere. It’s possible that large gatherings with no social distancing may never be safe again. Imo the world has fundamentally and permanently changed. What happens, happens. If some businesses go under then it’s just tough. Others will appear in their place and life will go on.

You really are quite tone deaf to others aren't you 🙄

We’ll have to see about the US. But many states like Florida have been open since June 2020.

I don’t wish a third wave ok any country but if they don’t get one, with no lockdowns and a much much earlier relaxing of restrictions the questions need to be asked about our strategy and whether it was right.

I know every state did different things but look at them now. Completely different situation. Why?

Just seen that someone has mentioned that the delta strain is in the US and Europe but ‘they are doing things better than us’

What are they doing better/different? This is quite crucial. We have had a more severe lockdown so why are we suffering more?

@Delatron

Just seen that someone has mentioned that the delta strain is in the US and Europe but ‘they are doing things better than us’

What are they doing better/different? This is quite crucial. We have had a more severe lockdown so why are we suffering more?

Yes, exactly. I don't feel qualified to comment, though overall it is striking that we have had such severe lockdowns yet these have not prevented such high fatalities. Maybe lockdowns just don't work. Maybe they are the worse of all worlds. But I am no scientist.

@Delatron

Just seen that someone has mentioned that the delta strain is in the US and Europe but ‘they are doing things better than us’

What are they doing better/different? This is quite crucial. We have had a more severe lockdown so why are we suffering more?

I wonder if immunity in population is worth considering, eg in NYC which got hit very hard in first wave.

Be interesting to hear from US people though sure they know more

Nobody is altruistic all the time. Selfish isn't a dirty word. After a year and a half we can hardly blame people for wanting to think about themselves and their family.

Yes @MarshaBradyo I do remember reading some figures about high levels of immunity in NYC and they were hit hard the first time round.

@TooManyPlatesInMotion
It seems lockdowns just end up causing huge spikes every time you open up. There must be some science behind it. I understand we did it to protect the NHS but when we look back will they be deemed to have been successful? Cases sky rocket the minute you open up. Other countries have avoided that.

I mentioned on another thread a theory. We now know the original Covid was not as transmissible (whatever variant that was!) Alpha was more and then Delta was even more. By continual lockdowns we have suppressed the less transmissible variants and then the new variants have taken hold once we come out of lockdown? As cases of the other variants became so low the new variants could easily become dominant?

We were told that keeping cases low would avoid new variants. Seems the opposite has happened.
Some rambling thoughts!

I wonder if immunity in population is worth considering, eg in NYC which got hit very hard in first wave

That might work for densely populated NYC, but it doesn't work in the same way for Florida - the state, let's not forget, that has more seniors than anywhere except Maine and where obesity is widespread (and hence has even more comorbidities)

@Delatron

Just seen that someone has mentioned that the delta strain is in the US and Europe but ‘they are doing things better than us’

What are they doing better/different? This is quite crucial. We have had a more severe lockdown so why are we suffering more?

Well it depends on individual definitions but personally I think we've had a much laxer lockdown than a lot of them. France, for example, is only recently reopening schools and inside bars and restaurants. There was also a curfew in France. People had to be home after a certain time unless essential reasons (they had to have written evidence, and police would check).

France, like many other European countries and America wears masks outdoors.

I don't know about all of Europe but definitely France and Germany were restricting entry to high risk countries like the UK. America too. So they have a few Delta cases but they're taking action to try to limit the numbers. They're not letting loads of cases in and then sitting back and watching it spread.

Portugal has just has another lockdown.
There, as in France and Germany, it's better enforced and has fewer exemptions. Mask wearing too.

So they're doing quite a lot different to us.

wonder if immunity in population is worth considering, eg in NYC which got hit very hard in first wave.

NYC enacted strict measures after they got hit hard in the first wave (much tougher than the UK). They also had the protection of America's closed or restricted borders.

Just checked - as of yesterday, Florida is also 27th in the league table of folks fully vaccinated; it's currently standing at 42.4%

@Puzzledandpissedoff

I wonder if immunity in population is worth considering, eg in NYC which got hit very hard in first wave

That might work for densely populated NYC, but it doesn't work in the same way for Florida - the state, let's not forget, that has more seniors than anywhere except Maine and where obesity is widespread (and hence has even more comorbidities)

True. What do you think about Florida?

I must admit I haven’t followed that closely but now find it intriguing

For example, New York schools went to either full home learning or hybrid - only small numbers in person. They're still mostly closed.

I'm not necessarily saying we should have done the same but definitely we can't compare to New York.

@MrsHastingslikethebattle

The media are at again.

The BBC graph vs the actual real life data linear graph.

Graphs showing the young vs old hospitalizations..what they show and what they dont show.

How can they get away with this? No wonder so many people are so scared

Thats shocking

@Tealightsandd

For example, New York schools went to either full home learning or hybrid - only small numbers in person. They're still mostly closed.

I'm not necessarily saying we should have done the same but definitely we can't compare to New York.

People are leaving New York in droves! Texas scrapped masks months ago and are doing way better than New York. Texas hit zero death counts a while back!

That might work for densely populated NYC, but it doesn't work in the same way for Florida

The answer is in your question.
Densely populated. That's what increases the risk.

If people are leaving New York 'in droves', who's crowding its nightclubs?

I assume it's like the London 'exodus'. Some people leaving but the vast majority staying.

Florida is also seeing zero death counts and guess what they fucked off masks too.

@Tealightsandd

If people are leaving New York 'in droves', who's crowding its nightclubs?

I assume it's like the London 'exodus'. Some people leaving but the vast majority staying.

They are going to Florida where there are no restrictions. I know you find this hard to believe but its true.

There was also a curfew in France. People had to be home after a certain time unless essential reasons (they had to have written evidence, and police would check)

I think you'll find the French curfew was mostly centred on certain cities, but it's certainly true that the police were checking
We could of course try to impose the same on the hotspots where cases usually balloon in the UK, but good luck with the shrieks of outrage which would follow any abandonment of the softly-softly approach

Marsha like others I'm still waiting to see what happens with Delta in Florida now that it's reached there. For all the reasons said it "ought" to be a disaster, but if it isn't there'll be some very hard questions to answer ... not that we'll get any

@Tealightsandd

If people are leaving New York 'in droves', who's crowding its nightclubs?

I assume it's like the London 'exodus'. Some people leaving but the vast majority staying.

Have you ever been Florida? I Have its bloody busy and the parks are open!

Just because the current restrictions don't affect your life much doesn't mean they don't affect others.

I work in extra curricular activities in schools. These are still not allowed due to school bubbles. My choir is not allowed to rehearse indoors and our many planned events have been postponed postponed and cancelled. All of which is a living (or lack thereof) for professional musicians who run the choir and band members who play with us in concert.

My kids have had pretty much every fun activity planned at school ripped away from them: residential trips, proms, prizegivings, sports competitions, and the delay until the end of term means everything school had planned for the end of this crappy year is now cancelled. And they can't do it next year because they will have moved school, will be in exam year etc etc. It's not just waiting a few weeks. This stuff will not be replaced.

My kids and I spent 9 months rehearsing hard for a semi professional theatre show (supposed to be April 2020) which was postponed and postponed and still we are unable to restart rehearsals for it.

My daughter can't have a birthday party. My parents can't have a 50th anniversary party. Who knows if they'll make it to 60...

Don't tell me life is not being affected. Many of these things cannot and will not happen at a later date. Children are growing up and elderly parents are getting closer to death. Small businesses which took years to build are crumbling or have crumbled
Time is not endless.