Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

Data, Stats Thread June 11

986 replies

PatriciaHolm · 11/06/2021 15:05

UK govt pressers Slides & data

www.gov.uk/government/collections/slides-and-datasets-to-accompany-coronavirus-press-conferences#history

Data Dashboard coronavirus.data.gov.uk/
Covid 19 Genomics www.cogconsortium.uk/tools-analysis/public-data-analysis-2/
Covid 19 Variant Mapping Sanger Institute covid19.sanger.ac.uk/lineages/raw
NHS Vaccination data www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-vaccinations/
Global vaccination data ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
R estimates UK & English regions www.gov.uk/guidance/the-r-number-in-the-uk
Imperial UK weekly LAs, cases / 100k, table, map, hotspots statistics imperialcollegelondon.github.io/covid19local/#map
NHS England Hospital activity www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-hospital-activity/
NHs England Daily deaths www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/
Cases Tracker England Local Government lginform.local.gov.uk/reports/view/lga-research/covid-19-case-tracker
ONS MSAO Map English deaths www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/
CovidMessenger live update by council area in England www.covidmessenger.com/
Scot gov Daily data www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-daily-data-for-scotland/
Scotland TravellingTabby LAs, care homes, hospitals, tests, t&t www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
PH Wales LAs, cases, tests, deaths Dashboard public.tableau.com/profile/public.health.wales.health.protection#!/vizhome/RapidCOVID-19virology-Public/Headlinesummary
ICNRC Intensive Care National Audit & Research reports www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports
NHS t&t England & UK testing Weekly stats www.gov.uk/government/collections/nhs-test-and-trace-statistics-england-weekly-reports
PHE Surveillance reports & LA Local Watchlist Maps by LSOA (from last summer) www.gov.uk/government/collections/nhs-test-and-trace-statistics-england-weekly-reports
ONS England infection surveillance report each Friday www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/previousReleases
Datasets for ONS surveillance reports www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/datasets/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveydata/2020
ONS Roundup deaths, infections & economic reports www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19roundup/2020-03-26
Zoe UK data covid.joinzoe.com/data#interactive-map
ECDC (European Centre for Disease Control rolling 14-day incidence EEA & UK www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea
Worldometer UK page www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
Our World in Data GB test positivity etc, DIY country graphs ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/united-kingdom?country=~GBR
FT DIY graphs compare deaths, cases, raw / million pop ig.ft.com/coronavirus-chart/?areas=eur&areas=usa&areas=bra&areas=gbr&areas=cze&areas=hun&areasRegional=usny&areasRegional=usnj&areasRegional=usaz&areasRegional=usca&areasRegional=usnd&areasRegional=ussd&cumulative=0&logScale=0&per100K=1&startDate=2020-09-01&values=deaths
PHE local health data fingertips.phe.org.uk/profile/health-profiles
Alama Personal COVID risk assessment alama.org.uk/covid-19-medical-risk-assessment/
Local Mobility Reports for countries www.google.com/covid19/mobility/
UK Highstreet Tracker for cities & large towns Footfall, spend index, workers, visitors, economic recovery www.centreforcities.org/data/high-streets-recovery-tracker/

⏭ Our STUDIES Corner ⏮ www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/3869571-Studies-corner?msgid=99913434

We welcome factual, data driven and analytical contributions
Please try to keep discussion focused on these

OP posts:
Thread gallery
125
cantkeepawayforever · 20/06/2021 13:00

Oh, and schools will have to organise the vaccinations within their own premises and with their own staff, because by then the vaccination hubs will have been dismantled. With 2 weeks' notice.

pussycatlickinglollyices · 20/06/2021 13:10

@MarshaBradyo

Immunity for chicken pox is a bit messier - eh you can get it younger or later

But why would Covid not reach primary age children in the same way cp tends to?

R is a bit higher I think but we see it as something children will likely get

I've had it twice. Once at primary, so about 6 or 7. Second time, at 15, I think I caught from my Dad who had shingles. I really don't want to get it again!
strangeshapedpotato · 20/06/2021 13:11

[quote cantkeepawayforever]@strangeshapedpotato

Apologies, yes, I realised that after I'd posted.

I am considerably older than your age 40, though!

1 in 500. About 550,000 teachers in the UK (quick Google, may not be accurate). 1 in 500 teachers = 1,100.

If exposed to high levels of virus in an enclosed space for 6 hours a day, what is the probability of someone who is vaccinated catching Covid, if there are no masks and no SD? Do we know that?[/quote]
I totally get your point - I was just alarmed at what you seemed to perceive your risk was!

Note - the 1 in 500 is assuming contracting covid - you need to factor in the risk of contraction as well - but if you assume the virus is allowed to spread completely unchecked then it's likely you could see 70/80% of teachers get it so not a huge difference in numbers.

And re catching the virus - it depends on what you mean by it - on how you define "infection". The immune system operates within the body, so in a way you have to be infected for it to work! There are three measures that are often used.

  1. Protection against Testing +ve - for this you need a certain level of virus in your system - some infections will be quashed before it gets to this level, but it's a useful measure because with PCR, if you don't test +ve, you're VERY unlikely to either show symptoms or be contagious.

  2. Protection against Symptoms - this is the easiest metric to measure and the one used in the headine figures for vaccines.

  3. Protection against becoming contagious - given people are contagious BEFORE symptoms show, the % vaccinates protect you against being contagious is going to be somewhere between the above two figures.

NB - the calculations for protection against hospitalisation are based in part on (2), i.e. they combine the protection against symptoms showing and the reduction in % of those who show symptoms that later require hospital treatment.

lonelyplanet · 20/06/2021 13:12

This reply has been deleted

Post references deleted post Talk Guidelines.

strangeshapedpotato · 20/06/2021 13:14

there will be a sudden decision that maybe children should be vaccinated, but the government will never admit that this is because of a decision about supply, and will never admit that schools are inherently Covid-insecure, but will suddenly make the vaccine available....

Ah they've been cleverer than that.

As with all things, they're sitting on the fence and waiting until popular opinion is in favour of one or the other - in the meantime they "leak" things from various scientists, ensuring that they contradict enough that people are exposed to both plans. If one attracts a backlash, they'll go the other way.

The problem with using populism to govern is that covid doesn't vote.

MarshaBradyo · 20/06/2021 13:14

@lonelyplanet

Honestly it’s such a shame this has been infiltrated and is now like all the other threads

I agree.

Ok good go away then Strange I can say I’m equally fed up with your overt doom mongering

It is comments like this, when someone disagrees with you, that cause this. Please stick to data and not insults.

Well it was in response to the rude I can’t be arsed answer to a question re assumptions

Which defeats the point of the data thread

Yes I was irritated when I posted it due to above

But this thread is getting more like others and it’s a shame

MarshaBradyo · 20/06/2021 13:16

Imo if you’re going to make strong statements re chaos

Back it up on here or post that kind of thing where it doesn’t matter

MRex · 20/06/2021 13:18

@MarshaBradyo

I thought it was down to risk assessments by JCVI looking at heart issue for young? (Can’t recall name)
Myocarditis, also some pericarditis. Also can be caused by covid, other vaccines, flu, other viruses... Worth noting both terms refer to inflammation that can be mild and temporary, or more severe leading to damage. I'd like to know severity; some pain and a bit of a fright is rather different than actual long-term heart damage despite the same words being used.

I am interested in reading JCVI findings, but as others say, I'm concerned we're riding a fine line in the UK where we must retain all restrictions because we can't quite reach herd immunity. The restrictions themselves have an impact on kids. I think risk assessment should be a balance of harms exercise that looks at vaccine side effects but doesn't ignore that with outbreaks instead of vaccines kids are then going to have multiple isolation periods, be expected to wear masks in many environments, not be able to hold big parties, periodically miss out on activities when they're judged risky, be considered a constant risk in visiting and hugging elderly relatives, be considered a constant risk near vulnerable friends and family (kids with cancer, diabetes etc as well as adults... and what if some kids feel responsible because they know they were sick first, what does that do to mental health?), not be able to travel without quarantine, even more teachers will leave...

People of all ages are putting up with these restrictions, but nobody likes them and there need to be workable plans in which they END. I think letting the kids all get sick would be a bad plan, in part because I can don't believe that the number of myocarditis cases will exceed the long covid issues at population scale, nor that the added deaths of vulnerable friends and relatives are a good idea.

sirfredfredgeorge · 20/06/2021 13:28

People of all ages are putting up with these restrictions

The level of restrictions are completely different though, we have a 50 year old sat in the pub with 50 people watching the football completely fine, and we have the police dispersing a dozen fifteen year olds sat in the park because of covid. So no I disagree that people are putting up with the restrictions, it's also worth noting that it is the same with the health harm of these restrictions - that 50 year old is free to play as much golf as they want, but the school child is confined to home for 10 days regularly.

MarshaBradyo · 20/06/2021 13:37

MRex I agree with you.

Any disruption is a very high cost so should be factored in decision.

MarshaBradyo · 20/06/2021 13:37

@sirfredfredgeorge

People of all ages are putting up with these restrictions

The level of restrictions are completely different though, we have a 50 year old sat in the pub with 50 people watching the football completely fine, and we have the police dispersing a dozen fifteen year olds sat in the park because of covid. So no I disagree that people are putting up with the restrictions, it's also worth noting that it is the same with the health harm of these restrictions - that 50 year old is free to play as much golf as they want, but the school child is confined to home for 10 days regularly.

Yes isolation is extremely limiting.
lonelyplanet · 20/06/2021 13:40

I find this graph showing the rise in hospitalisations of children concerning.

Data, Stats Thread June 11
lonelyplanet · 20/06/2021 13:41

Especially considering cases are still at a relatively low rate to where they have been.

sirfredfredgeorge · 20/06/2021 13:45

@lonelyplanet it shows no increase in hospitalisations though, just an increase in hospitalisations as percentage of all hospitalisations, the red line (hospitalisations per case rate) is the same. The increase in percentage is a result of the lack of hospitalisations in older groups.

PatriciaHolm · 20/06/2021 13:46

@lonelyplanet

I find this graph showing the rise in hospitalisations of children concerning.
At face value, it's not - it seems to show hospitalisations as a % of cases, and daily admissions in numbers, as pretty steady since the end of march.

As we vaccinate older groups, and they are less likely to be hospitalised, then the percentage of overall admissions that younger groups actually make up will of course grow. Doesn't mean just from that that hospitalisations in children as a percentage of cases are growing.

OP posts:
strangeshapedpotato · 20/06/2021 13:48

@MarshaBradyo

Imo if you’re going to make strong statements re chaos

Back it up on here or post that kind of thing where it doesn’t matter

OK - I'm sorry I was abrupt, but sometimes it gets incredibly frustrating making the same point over and over again, to constantly face exactly the same question.
  1. Vaccines reduce risk, they do not eliminate it. Now you may argue that 95%+ reduction in deaths is almost elimination and I'd agree - that was the case it seemed with Alpha, but Delta is different (less) and the next variant will be less still. I'm not going to quantify how far because we don't know but every 1% reduction in efficacy mounts up to a lot of deaths when extrapolated nationally.

  2. Not everyone will be vaccinated - many are refusing their second jab and others are refusing both. Now arguably you can say it's their choice, their fault, but it will have consequences for the health care system who still have to treat them and when they do, it ties up resources that could be spent treating other conditions.

Finally - infection numbers - so far in the UK, in each wave roughly 10% of the population has contracted the virus - the epidemic never reached potential due to lockdowns. A %, let's call it H of those infected I, were hospitalised.

Number hospitalised = H * I

If we don't use restrictions to curb the next wave then I will be much higher. How much higher exactly is hard to say. It depends on the extent to which vaccination prevents infection with Delta (currently uncertain), but 50% infected is quite believable if we don't reimpose restrictions that is. As well as this, we believe the absolute risk from Delta of hospitalisation is more than double what it was for Alpha.
Now let's factor in a protection factor of 90% for vaccines, but reduce it to account for the number not sufficiently vaccinated - I'll pluck 80% out of the air here - it's not a figure I want to fight over, and it's a gross simplification, but it should be good enough to give an idea here.

So now we have I (infected population) has increased 5 fold (I5)
H (the risk of an unvaccinated, infected person being hospitalised) has more than doubled - let's just say H
2
Vaccine protection to be added - a 5-fold reduction

New number hospitalised = 5I * 2H / 5

Simpified this is I * 2H or twice as many people could be hospitalised in the event of a massive third wave as were in wave #1 or 2.

Now this won't actually happen of course, because whatever the plan is, once those numbers start climbing, even if the government doesn't act, people WILL act. It will be the worst thing actually because it will give rise to the belief that vaccines don't work and that the government has lost control - THAT's why I said chaos.

MarshaBradyo · 20/06/2021 13:49

OK - I'm sorry I was abrupt, but sometimes it gets incredibly frustrating making the same point over and over again, to constantly face exactly the same question.

This is what we do on this thread, we’re patient - the best answers are anyway. It’s not like the rest of the site where hyperbole etc just get tossed around

Ok in shops will read your reply later!

amicissimma · 20/06/2021 14:23

"... and the next variant will be less still"

We have absolutely no way of knowing whether or not that will be the case. The next variant might be more vulnerable to vaccines.

This is a data thread not a 'make up a scary scenario and present it as fact' thread.

lonelyplanet · 20/06/2021 14:24

Thanks sirfred and Patricia, that makes sense.

MarshaBradyo · 20/06/2021 14:34

Not everyone will be vaccinated - many are refusing their second jab and others are refusing both.

You’ll need to quantify this with a figure. Uptake has been high, especially in groups susceptible to hospitalisation.

MarshaBradyo · 20/06/2021 14:39

The rest, feels a bit nanny maths to me but I’ll
let someone else dissect it, it’s like reading someone’s messy notes not sure I’m following you.

But no I still don’t think the outcome will be chaos. It will be some daily deaths as with other illnesses.

pinkpip100 · 20/06/2021 15:33

Long term lurker here, I have valued this thread and it's knowledgeable posters throughout. But have to admit I am finding the comments about 'doomsters' and general nastiness towards posters who have a different viewpoint really hard to read.
We all have different priorities. Personally I'm terrified about it being allowed to run rampant through schools with no mitigation's and feel as though CV / CEV children have been thrown under a bus.

strangeshapedpotato · 20/06/2021 17:17

@amicissimma

"... and the next variant will be less still"

We have absolutely no way of knowing whether or not that will be the case. The next variant might be more vulnerable to vaccines.

This is a data thread not a 'make up a scary scenario and present it as fact' thread.

No that's not actually possible.

In a vaccinated population, the only variants that can outcompete the existing one, are those with greater vaccine evasion.

Firefliess · 20/06/2021 17:23

I don't think they've managed to sort out the hospital data yet to distinguish people in hospital because of Covid with those in hospital for other reasons who happen to test positive on admission. For children it's particularly likely to be a problem because they so very rarely get seriously ill from Covid. Personally I've heard of two kids admitted for other reasons and tested positive on admission recently but don't know of any admitted because of Covid itself. We know Covid is quite high among children currently, so I wouldn't be too worried about the hospital "admissions" of children until they sort the data out.

strangeshapedpotato · 20/06/2021 17:24

@MarshaBradyo

Not everyone will be vaccinated - many are refusing their second jab and others are refusing both.

You’ll need to quantify this with a figure. Uptake has been high, especially in groups susceptible to hospitalisation.

The purpose of the post was not to detail a complex mathematical model of what is going to occur. These exist if people are interested, but they are frequently dismissed by people unable to understand how they are derived as simply doom-mongering.

I wanted to illustrate using simple figures that are not perfect, but quite defendable.

The only use I made of people not taking vaccines was in reducing the overall benefit of the vaccine program from a 90% reduction to an 80% reduction in hospitalisation. That is allowing for a 90% uptake in vaccines, which is in line with official figures of those accepting ANY jab - the figure for those who had one jab, but refuse the second will push the overall vaccination rate down.

www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/clinical-areas/immunology-and-vaccines/covid-19-vaccine-rates-lower-among-ethnic-minorities-disabled-people-and-in-deprived-areas/#:~:text=Take%2Dup%20of%20a%20Covid,National%20Statistics%20(ONS)%20said.
(There's probably a better source than this.)

So unless someone wants to try to claim that we'll have over 90% of adults DOUBLE vaccinated soon, I think my figure stands thank you.

Swipe left for the next trending thread