Sky news article about delta. Deaths after 2 vaccines

[Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady]

This is the bit that scares me, and makes me think the "end" is no longer in sight.

As of 7 June, there have been 42 deaths in England of people confirmed as having the Delta variant and who died within 28 days of testing positive.

Of these people, 23 were unvaccinated, seven had had their first dose more than 21 days before and 12 had their second dose more than 14 days before.

Unless my maths is way off that means 28% of people who have died with delta variant have had 2 doses of the vaccine.

The vaccines were supposed to be our way out!

I'm not one for scaremongering so im sorry if this post comes across like that but I feel so so down today. I want a light at the end of the tunnel!

Full article:

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-delta-variant-60-more-transmissible-than-alpha-and-more-resistant-to-vaccines-phe-reports-12330068

I think we do need more info (which we won’t get) about the age and health of those double vaccinated.
Plus it takes three weeks for immunity to kick in so two weeks doesn’t mean fully vaccinated and I’m sure I read slightly longer for the older generation? So for example if it was 2 weeks after being double jabbed for those 12 then they wouldn’t have been fully protected.

I wonder why they haven’t said how many died three weeks after the jab? That’s the key point.

Ah re reading and it say ‘more than 14’
But ‘more than 21’ is the key info we want. I’m always suspicious about the media manipulating the info for headlines.

The vast majority of those who were double dosed by early June will be those at greatest risk of death, full stop, not just Covid; it's entirely possible they all passed from something else, such as age, and not Covid. That is the result of vaccinating the most vulnerable in our society first - they don't stop dying at a higher rate than the general population overall, they are just much less likely to do of Covid.

Eventually, pretty much all Covid deaths will be from the vaccinated, as the number of vaccinated increases; the idea is that the overall rate and number of deaths is much much lower than it would be without the vaccines.

We all know that even double jabbing doesn’t not give 100% protection against death or serious illness. No vaccine does. By definition those already double jabbed are in the high risk categories likely to have co-morbidity. So you are being unnecessarily gloomy

Yes I’m also wondering if they were very old, frail and in hospital for something else, picked up Covid and it’s unclear why they died but Covid goes on the death certificate. Until we have more information we can’t draw any conclusions either way.

I’d be wary of why the info is presented as ‘21 days after the first vaccine’ but then they’ve switched to 14 days for the second. Clearly some will have been less than 21 days post second vaccine.

@PatriciaHolm

The vast majority of those who were double dosed by early June will be those at greatest risk of death, full stop, not just Covid; it's entirely possible they all passed from something else, such as age, and not Covid. That is the result of vaccinating the most vulnerable in our society first - they don't stop dying at a higher rate than the general population overall, they are just much less likely to do of Covid.

Eventually, pretty much all Covid deaths will be from the vaccinated, as the number of vaccinated increases; the idea is that the overall rate and number of deaths is much much lower than it would be without the vaccines.

This.

There will be an overlap in those most susceptible to death from Covid and those where the vaccine won't work with its full efficacy and they will have had the opportunity to be double vaccinated for a while.

There also isn't an identified distinction of Covid being the most significant cause of death and Covid occurring in someone at the end of life from another cause.

Delta has been around for a while and the rates of hospitalisations that preceed deaths has not followed the trends identified last spring of over the winter.

They died with 28 days of a positive test, which could well have been taken routinely when in hospital for something else entirely.

As they had 2 doses over 2 weeks ago, they must have been elderly or vulnerable or both, therefore it's entirely possible they died of other causes or even of natural causes i.e. old age.

12 people. In a country of over 65 million.

We really all need to get a grip here.

I’m also wondering if they were very old, frail and in hospital for something else, picked up Covid and it’s unclear why they died

I've just read that NHS England have now been told to count cases aquired while in hospital separately from patients admitted because of covid.

@Delatron it takes 3 weeks for immunity for the first jab to kick in but only 2 weeks for the second jab. Hence the 14 day figure for jab 2 here. So they were post “full vaccination”.

@PicsInRed while I totally agree that we do need perspective and/or more information, I am 42 and had my second dose 2 weeks ago. I am not elderly, vulnerable or in ill health (I received a spare dose). So we can’t actually make that assumption about these people.

The vaccines aren't 100% effective. What's the surprise. They did amazingly to come up with vaccines at all so quickly but they won't save everyone. Plus delta is 60% more transmissable. So they kind of cancels out some of the vaccine benefit. It's just maths.

[quote DarceyDashwood]@PicsInRed while I totally agree that we do need perspective and/or more information, I am 42 and had my second dose 2 weeks ago. I am not elderly, vulnerable or in ill health (I received a spare dose). So we can’t actually make that assumption about these people.[/quote]
Agree, but it's more convenient to assume that the dead are old or Ill.

Whilst the data is too small to be concerned, it is also too early to disregard it completely

@Delatron

Ah re reading and it say ‘more than 14’ But ‘more than 21’ is the key info we want. I’m always suspicious about the media manipulating the info for headlines.

Plus you could catch it a week after the second vaccine, test positive a week after due to incubation and then weeks later die.

I read in the same article that the risk of death with Delta is 0.01 compared to 1.9 with Kent . Surely that is the good news here

This worried me. Many of us "vulnerable" are not at deaths door (40s hoping to live a good while yet!) But are vulnerable to covid. I hate it when people say"ah its just the old and vulnerable."

I was so careful all last year but after being double jabbed went back into supermarkets and have had some ffiends over. It would be helpful to know how risky this is.

[quote Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady]This is the bit that scares me, and makes me think the "end" is no longer in sight.

As of 7 June, there have been 42 deaths in England of people confirmed as having the Delta variant and who died within 28 days of testing positive.

Of these people, 23 were unvaccinated, seven had had their first dose more than 21 days before and 12 had their second dose more than 14 days before.

Unless my maths is way off that means 28% of people who have died with delta variant have had 2 doses of the vaccine.

The vaccines were supposed to be our way out!

I'm not one for scaremongering so im sorry if this post comes across like that but I feel so so down today. I want a light at the end of the tunnel!

Full article:

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-delta-variant-60-more-transmissible-than-alpha-and-more-resistant-to-vaccines-phe-reports-12330068[/quote]
The only part I'm "concerned" over is New PHE research suggests the Delta variant is associated with a 64% increased risk of household transmission compared with the Alpha variant - and is 40% more transmissible outdoors.

Bloody hell I hadn't noticed the outdoors bit. Id hoped to socialise outdoors at least.

I had been so hopeful since being jabbed.

Quote from the article

"As of 7 June, there have been 42 deaths in England of people confirmed as having the Delta variant and who died within 28 days of testing positive"

Note it said confirmed as having, rather than confirmed as death directly due to covid.

For all we know they might have died of something completely different.

If they were very old, or very 'frail' (CEV?) then their jabs would have been in groups 1-6 and so it would have been well after 14, and indeed 21, days from their second.

Jab immunity isn't 100% so it looks like if you get it despite the jab (whatever your age or co-morbidity) it can still be serious

The key bit of information is that these are people who died WITH Covid, that does not necessarily mean they died OF Covid.

Some of these may be people who perhaps would have died in the last week anyway, it just so happens they had Covid at the time of death.

Last night on the 10 o’clock news (notoriously gloomy) they were interviewing staff on a respiratory ward. They said they are getting back to normal pre covid with their patients now. They said as far as they could see the vaccines were making a difference as they weren’t getting many covid patients at all now.

New PHE research suggests the Delta variant is associated with a 64% increased risk of household transmission compared with the Alpha variant - and is 40% more transmissible outdoors.

Re: outdoor transmission - this is poor journalism.

Here is the actual report and it does not say anything about outdoor transmission. What it does say, though, is that the secondary attack rate for close contacts (outside of households) is likely to be 40% higher for Delta than it is for Alpha (page 28). This is actually good news because earlier reports estimated the transmission advantage (for close contacts) at 60% and then 50%.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/992989/AB1_Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing.pdf

No covid vaccination (any brand) provides either immediate protection or 100 % protection.

First vaccination gives an initial immune response; it needs to be backed by by a second jab.

From second vaccination to maximum immune response takes about 3 weeks.

Even then, no vaccination is guarantees full protection against covid. The degree of protection depends on age, immune response, brand of vaccine and the covid variant.

In the UK,. all that info is provided on the media, on govt websites, in the advisory leaflets provided at vaccination . It's been repeated over and over and over.

"The only part I'm "concerned" over is New PHE research suggests the Delta variant is associated with a 64% increased risk of household transmission compared with the Alpha variant - and is 40% more transmissible outdoors "

I wonder if that's because of schools acting as vectors, a pupil bringing it home with them, and everyone in the family getting it, whereas with previous variants even with household level contact you might not have caught it?

I didn’t know that full protection was only two weeks after the second jab?

But yes as a poster said with the long incubation period they could have caught it one week post jab then not shown symptoms for a week.