Exactly how much are our youngsters expected to give up?

[StayAGhost]

So after not been able to do her GCSE's, been locked down for 18 months, not able to grow and develop as a teenager should, no concerts, no Meeting with friends, no shopping or general hanging round, no holidays, no seeing grandparents the NCS have now CANCELLED their camp
For a virus that does NOT affect the young

Exactly when us enough enough??

DD sobbing in bedroom, this was what got her thru 14 assessments in 3 weeks

To take from her is cruel

And SO UNNECESSARY

@MarshaBradyo certainly not the norm but I was just pointing out just because things can go back to normal doesnt mean things will go back to normal.

Really shocked that people can claim furlough rather than reopen
I must be very naive
Have worked right through with no government support

‘ The more we keep telling our dc their generation has suffered the most the more they'll be stuck in the negativity of the last year. ’

Yes but you see, I don’t think this is happening. Nobody is telling their children to be upset. All the parents I know and after school club providers etc have tried to carve out as much fun and normality for the children as possible. All the children I know have overall been pretty resilient, and just got on with life. It’s still ok to share our disappointment on here (as parents) about the big things they are missing out on, and it’s even more important to acknowledge the impact that has on them, consciously or subconsciously.

I’ve been on a few webinars around this and had DD’s counsellor’s thoughts too and the impact is real.

Of course we teaching resilience and postivity 🙄. That said I think arrogantly brushing off your child’s reasonable disappointment and upset and being brusquely unsympathetic to teens is quite shit parenting actually. But “you do you” as they say. I guess those “snowflake” tough shit commentators don’t have teens or young adult children themselves.

Agreed.

Reminds me of fil whose refrain was “We didn’t have….” Including “I never got the chance to go to university…” Such a miserable and ungenerous attitude.

Not that I'm calling anyone a snowflake (teen or otherwise). In fact I feel very much for young people. As I do for the elderly - who are losing the last years of their life.

But, some attitudes expressed on here lean unpleasantly towards erasure of Clinically Extremely Vulnerable and Clinically Vulnerable children and teens - and those with CEV or CV friends and family members. The 'young sacrificed for vulnerable' ill informed mantra. It's as if the CV and CEV young and their loved ones don't exist (or matter).

I should add that it's not teens expressing these attitudes in my experience. All the ones I know have shown amazing resilience, understanding, and empathy.

"Whinging is a very 21st century phenomenon. Everyone look at me! I’m disappointed/upset/offended! In the olden days we just used to get on with things instead of whinging."

Lots of being disappointed and upset in the 20th century as well, is my clear recollection!

OP, I totally understand your dd's and your sadness. i don't think it's the case that the lockdown has been equally bad for everyone. There are certain groups who have lost opportunities that won't be repeated - GCSE year, a 'normal' sixth form experience, that 1st and 2nd year at university have gone for ever. Other groups as well - some heartbreaking posts on mn from people who have lost a year of trying to find a life partner to form a family with and now it may be too late. Also new parents on parental leave not able to go to baby groups, meet other parents. And of course the absence of medical treatment - see the dental story below.

It is interesting how different people cope with the sadness of others though - some go down the 'they should be thankful they aren't in WW1' route, others less so. tbh I doubt if either side learns much from the other - it depends on your emotional response.

@MsTSwift

Of course we teaching resilience and postivity 🙄. That said I think arrogantly brushing off your child’s reasonable disappointment and upset and being brusquely unsympathetic to teens is quite shit parenting actually. But “you do you” as they say. I guess those “snowflake” tough shit commentators don’t have teens or young adult children themselves.

Absolutely on all counts. Plus there’s usually a personal reason to minimise

As I pointed out on another thread, it is for our children that we should contain Covid.

If we allow it to become endemic, it will be our children we have condemned to grow up and grow old in a future with an a deadly disease (on top of all the ones already around) - a disease that can cause organ damage and leave people long term ill.

It will be our children that have to fund continued costs of endemic Covid - particularly the Long Covid burden.

We do not have to let Covid become endemic. We can take measures (including temporary pandemic border control, with proper quarantine) to contain.

Once the majority of the population is fully vaccinated (and then the rest of the world), there will be only limited opportunity for transmission.

We do not need to allow it become a forever thing. We do not have to make that our children's future.

"Once the majority of the population is fully vaccinated (and then the rest of the world), there will be only limited opportunity for transmission."

Assuming that's possible, how long will it take to vaccinate the majority of the rest of the world, and will the benefits outweigh the disadvantages? Has anyone produced that analysis? It would be interesting - how many 'people will be saved from the harms you identify, and what harms will be caused in their place? Without that, we can't know if that is the right policy or not.

What other policies are there?

Assuming that's possible, how long will it take to vaccinate the majority of the rest of the world, and will the benefits outweigh the disadvantages?

Frankly it wouldn't have to take long at all if the richer countries shared.

We do not need to allow it become a forever thing. We do not have to make that our children's future.

I (sadly) think that ship has sailed. Even Devi Sridhar now thinks it will become endemic.

What other policies are there?

Well, I suppose one other policy is to accept that it will become endemic (agree my quotation didn't include that bit of the post , so mine doesn't make complete sense!- but i think the overall gist of the post I was replying to was that the policy should be to prevent it becoming endemic). As SK says, that ship may now have sailed (if it was ever realistic - views differ on that I know!).

And then do as much as possible to reduce the damage of the endemic disease through vaccination, developing treatment, protecting the vulnerable where possible by improving infection control in hospitals, increasing healthcare capacity etc.

@sandyandkirsten

We do not need to allow it become a forever thing. We do not have to make that our children's future.

I (sadly) think that ship has sailed. Even Devi Sridhar now thinks it will become endemic.

Only because she can see the lack of foresight that our government and some others (but not all) have consistently displayed.

Assuming that's possible, how long will it take to vaccinate the majority

Biden was trying to talk to the drugs companies about a potential temporary vaccine patent waiver - to allow other countries to make their own. Whether he succeeds or not, we shall have to wait and see.

will the benefits outweigh the disadvantages?

Long term, yes. The problem is too many politicians think only of the short term.

Our children will grow up in a world with endemic Covid and all the risks of Long Covid - and they will ask why we let it happen. They will see that we didn't have to.

I actually am fairly optimistic about the long term risks of endemic covid. Vaccines will massively help.

Vaccines could do more than help. They are the key (with temporary other measures like border control and proper quarantine) to preventing endemic Covid.

"Our children will grow up in a world with endemic Covid and all the risks of Long Covid - and they will ask why we let it happen."

If it becomes endemic (not sure that we can stop it if the vaccines are not 100% effective and there is not 100% takeup - it will always be somewhere in that case, won't it? I suppose permanent track and trace could play a part), what will be the cost - how many will get post viral syndrome, and die earlier than they otherwise would,; and what would be the cost of doing whatever necessary (not sure what that is) to prevent it becoming endemic?

Until that analysis is done we don't know whether long term the benefits would outweigh the costs, do we? Has any modeller done the analysis?

I suppose annual vaccines (and hopefully new drug treatments) could help mitigate the impact of endemic Covid - but isn't it cheaper to just contain it properly in the first place. Instead of ongoing costs of yearly vaccines and drugs.

isn't it cheaper to just contain it properly in the first place

Yes of course but again I think that ship has sailed!

Presumably new drugs will be in patent for some years - so likely not cheap if it becomes endemic.

It's awful for poorer countries. They have enough to deal with. The very last thing they need is endemic Covid. Many have done so well to try to keep Covid out - but they're vulnerable to Covid exports from the UK and other places. Focus (and money) should be on diseases already an issue like malaria, without an extra burden to worry about.

@sandyandkirsten

isn't it cheaper to just contain it properly in the first place

Yes of course but again I think that ship has sailed!

I don't think we've got to the point of no return. Not yet. We're heading that way but right now it's not too late. But unfortunately it would require political will (and foresight).

I don't hold out much home with this bunch of clowns in charge, Tealights.

Hope even!

I think teenagers and children have shown incredible resilience. I also think it's been bitterly unfair on them and saying so is perfectly fine. We're allowed to be disappointed for them. I think it's pretty shit to minimise what they've missed out on. 18 months is a long time when you're turning 18 and my daughter has missed out on having the 18th birthday she dreamed of, her college course has been all online and she has missed the practical aspect of the course which is half of it! I'm just hoping university will be a normal experience for her.

To the original poster, you're allowed to feel sad for your daughter. Mine did NCS a couple of years ago and it was a fantastic opportunity. My 15 year old son missed out on his DofE and he was so disappointed. It's crap.