Does the anti vax drama affect you?

[Onthegrapevine]

I am seeing more and more videos surfacing from anti vax folk along laughing and joking about the vaccinated being dead within the year amongst other things.

When the conspiracy theories started when there was first talk of a vaccine I honestly laughed it off, but over a year in and now I’m double jabbed it’s getting to me.

It feels like such a divide between “us and them.” Some anti vax are now claiming they are looking to “protect people” and that’s why they are “educating us.”

Prior to Covid I was aware of the conspiracy theories surrounding the flu jab etc, my own midwife even said she was “on the fence” about the flu jab when I asked when I should have mine. But those conspiracies were very sporadic and I didn’t feel bombarded with them in the way I do covid.

These are so loud, and they are everywhere.

Is anyone else feeling the same?

It’s funny how the anti vaxx agenda which has absolutely nothing to gain other than sharing people’s experiences and the truth are the ones considered conspiring against humanity yet the multi billion pound pharmaceutical companies that profit solely from chronic illnesses and disease aren’t Most people are educated far beyond common sense.

Please would you link any truths posted by anti vaxxers?

@confuseddotcom090

I've not had the vaccine as I'm concerned about (1) emerging information about their biodistribution (2) the damage caused by the spike protein to blood vessel walls and subsequent thrombus formation (3) risk of antibody dependent enhancement in the longer term

For me, the risks outweigh the benefits.

Online I've found others who share my concerns but in real life nobody I know has looked into this in detail or even wants to. I'm not surprised....it's very scary. I'm scared what will happen to society if I am right. But I haven't seen any scaremongering on this anywhere, just real scientists like Dr Byram Bindle talking about their concerns.

I'm sure there's antivax nonsense out there, but I've not seen it. I believe in good vaccines. The measles vaccine has saved countless lives. I look at the data and make up my own mind.

What makes me really angry is the lack of objective information readily available to people. You can find it if you look, but you have to be more diligent than most people are prepared to be.

is it not also possible that people have looked into this in detail too, as you have, and come to a different conclusion from you? I feel like this is rarely addressed by those who yell DO YOUR RESEARCH (which I'm not saying you are doing here, by the way). What if we have done the research, and we've made a decision based on that and it was to - get the vaccine?

everybody you would think so, wouldn’t you? That would be sensible. But no, changes to periods have been dismissed for months, the MHRA missed the clotting issue and I think as far as I’m aware there has been very little discussion about strokes. Have they even bothered to look at the strokes suffered since vaccinations began in older people? From my anecdata they haven’t and the women seeking advice on menstrual changes have been told there is no link as there isn’t a “biological mechanism for it to happen”.

Really?! Doesn’t exactly inspire confidence!!!!!! So forgive me if I don’t share your confidence

If I were jabbed, I wouldn't want to know! It's too scary to go down the route of "what if it's not as good as it sounds ".

Why would I trust anecdata though?!

Anyway, even accepting that everything you say is true (I don't, but for argument's sake) what is the solution then? We are where we are with the tools that we have.

This is why those who are against the covid vaccine realistically have to fall into two camps; those who deny the existence and/or seriousness of covid (and so don't think a vaccine is necessary at all which is clearly an unsustainable position), or those that accept that a vaccine is necessary but just don't want to have it themselves (which by default means they are relying on others to do something they are not prepared to do themselves).

Unless you have another proposal/solution @Roonerspismed?

Anti-vaxxers royally piss me off. That is all.

@Roonerspismed

The only anti covid vaccine people I know are quiet about it. We generally vaccinate. We have complied with restrictions

But we - quietly - think the risks of the vaccine are unquantified longer term and probably underreported shorter term. We are worried about the lack of media reporting. We suspect a lot of being hushed up to prevent vaccine hesitancy. Yet we are half that vulnerable people can be vaccinated and celebrate that. We are younger and healthier and felt like we had to save the NHS and vaccinate the elderly and vulnerable. Yet here we are - vaccinating teenagers.

I don’t discuss with anyone really - it’s a very personal decision.

But it’s playing wrong to think we know the long term consequences of vaccinating everyone.

The only screaming I see is from pro vaccinators. I haven’t seen any videos and I haven’t sought to change anyone’s mine

I agree, but I worry that it will not be a personal decision for much longer.

No. It doesn't affect me any more than the many people who seem to think despite all evidence to the contrary that Covid is a deadly plague and that we must all be both vaccinated and locked down.
Both extremes are total nonsense.
But unfortunately because the exposition of alleged science by government and media has been so appalling, conspiracy theories gain credibility.
Until the closing down of genuine debate is halted, we'll only get screaming from both extremes.

@Whatalottachocca

I’m too busy living my life to notice to be honest. There will always be people who hold different view points but I don’t give them much headspace. I don’t watch or read the news anymore which helps. The news is no longer “news” as it used to be, it’s just endless jumping on whatever the latest outrage is and spinning it out/inflating it to gain viewers and to keep their attention.

This.

If it bothers you OP avoid them. If you happen to come across it, nothing is compelling you to press play and sit through it. If you interact with such people avoid them.

People will always have differences of opinion on matters. Everyone needs to stop acting like know it alls and leave people be. Personally I'm sick of the vaxx police constantly preaching to anti vaxx to get the vaccine and sick of anti vaxx conspiracy theories which get weirder and more aggressive day by day. I happily avoid any covid talk with those around me and stick to topics I enjoy

@everybodysang

Of course it's possible others have done their research. I've not seen any discussion of the points I've raised though. If you can point me to the data, I'd much appreciate it .

I can see that the government has every intent of making life v difficult indeed for the unvaccinated, so any solid data that can support safety should be shared to help people give informed consent. Instead we get proclamations like that of the MHRA last week in children, sharing no data whatsoever.

What about a middle ground sunshine? Vaccinate those that need or want it, based on a proper risk assessment, and move on. The NHS is coping fine and there are hardly any deaths.

I’m not anti covid vaccine per se. I’m just anti the utter shit show that is now. Vaccinating kids?! Makes no sense not least if we are trying to achieve a global solution.

So for me, I would rather risk covid and even long covid than the vaccine. The chance of me taking up NHS space is minuscule. And given I generally take up very little NHS time and space as I keep myself slim and fit and eat well, and no I DONT take the pill, I think I would be deserving of its care if I get covid and need their help.

@Roonerspismed

It would be lovely if it worked but it doesn't. We need herd immunity to get fully back to "normal". In order to achieve herd immunity we need around 85%+ of the population to be vaccinated.

Vaccinating only those most at risk won't put enough downward pressure on case numbers. In my view we either have mass vaccination, or we have restrictions. Those are the choices.

No one is obliged to get the vaccine, if you don't want it then just don't have it. It is a fact though that those who choose not to have the vaccine are relying on those who do to create sufficient immunity in the population for restrictions to be eased.

I can see no logical benefit to the NHS in intentionally or negligently damaging millions of people (who they would then have to treat) with a vaccine they don't need when only vaccinating those at the highest risk would do the job. Can you?

Why would every country in the world be making the same mistake if only vaccinating half the population would be enough?

Similarly with the flu vaccine, we vaccinate those most at risk and we also vaccinate children because they are know to be "superspreaders". It's not new that children are vaccinated against things that are very unlikely to cause them significant harm on an individual basis.

Why do we need herd immunity?

I don’t think we are being deliberately damaged with a vaccine (or injected with a microchip). But I do think there is far more going on in terms of adverse effects due to neglect or negligence or a desire to sacrifice a few for the majority/economy. I don’t want to be part of that.

Bear in mind that each younger person that gets it is a saved vaccine and I would bet my last pound also someone who won’t need a booster come autumn, either.

We also know more about risk factors and treatments. For some people we are now increasing them to more risk from the vaccine than from covid and morally that makes me feel uncomfortable and it’s not even being discussed in the press. The woman who said it on TV was sacked.

Odd? I think so.

@Sunshinegirl82

Why would I trust anecdata though?!

Anyway, even accepting that everything you say is true (I don't, but for argument's sake) what is the solution then? We are where we are with the tools that we have.

This is why those who are against the covid vaccine realistically have to fall into two camps; those who deny the existence and/or seriousness of covid (and so don't think a vaccine is necessary at all which is clearly an unsustainable position), or those that accept that a vaccine is necessary but just don't want to have it themselves (which by default means they are relying on others to do something they are not prepared to do themselves).

Unless you have another proposal/solution @Roonerspismed?

You state " those who don't think a vaccine is necessary is an unsustainable position"

Why would a 20 year old want to take a vaccine that doesn't benefit their own health? ( Please don't trot out the community/ lockdowns or proposed legislation as a reason for a personal health issue.)

Many young people may feel they don't wish to take a vaccine which has a tiny risk of death for a virus that doesn't concern them. I don't see why that is " unsustainable". Just because the government witter on about the greater good, lockdowns, and the NHS doesn't make it the gospel with people making their own decisions regarding their own bodies. Many people may not wish to have vaccines every year putting up with potential side effects- whether you or anyone else thinkls that person is making the wrong choice is irrelevant.

@blueangel1

Anti-vaxxers royally piss me off. That is all.

Thanks for that well thought out intelligent contribution

@Roonerspismed

What about a middle ground sunshine? Vaccinate those that need or want it, based on a proper risk assessment, and move on. The NHS is coping fine and there are hardly any deaths.

I’m not anti covid vaccine per se. I’m just anti the utter shit show that is now. Vaccinating kids?! Makes no sense not least if we are trying to achieve a global solution.

So for me, I would rather risk covid and even long covid than the vaccine. The chance of me taking up NHS space is minuscule. And given I generally take up very little NHS time and space as I keep myself slim and fit and eat well, and no I DONT take the pill, I think I would be deserving of its care if I get covid and need their help.

Indeed, it's amazing more people don't have this view which is balanced and common sense

@Roonerspismed

What about a middle ground sunshine? Vaccinate those that need or want it, based on a proper risk assessment, and move on. The NHS is coping fine and there are hardly any deaths.

I’m not anti covid vaccine per se. I’m just anti the utter shit show that is now. Vaccinating kids?! Makes no sense not least if we are trying to achieve a global solution.

So for me, I would rather risk covid and even long covid than the vaccine. The chance of me taking up NHS space is minuscule. And given I generally take up very little NHS time and space as I keep myself slim and fit and eat well, and no I DONT take the pill, I think I would be deserving of its care if I get covid and need their help.

^ This, this and this again.

As for the responses about how we need to meet certain criteria to lift restrictions... well, stop looking at computer modelling data from SAGE (wrong, time and time again), and look at actual, real world data. Look at the US states which had lots of restrictions and the US states which didn't. No difference in cases. Lockdowns don't actually work, in the real world. Nor do masks. And anyway, we have virtually no deaths at the moment (well, we have about 450 daily deaths from cancer and 450 from heart disease, but a tiny number from Covid).

So the conditions to lift restrictions are already here. The vulnerable have almost all been vaccinated. Deaths have been consistently LOWER than the 5 year average for months.

These restrictions are no longer about a virus.

@IhateAntivaccers

My point is that the position that covid doesn't exist and/or isn't serious is unsustainable. If you (wrongly) don't believe covid exists you can justify there being no requirement for a vaccine at all.

[quote Sunshinegirl82]@IhateAntivaccers

My point is that the position that covid doesn't exist and/or isn't serious is unsustainable. If you (wrongly) don't believe covid exists you can justify there being no requirement for a vaccine at all.[/quote]
It isn't serious for the vast majority of people ( mainly young) , that view isn't " unsustainable" , it's a fact

@IhateAntivaccers

So is it your view that there is no need to take any action regarding covid because it is not serious and therefore not a problem? I maintain that view is unsustainable because Covid IS serious for enough of the population to be problematic at a population level.

@Roonerspismed

Why do we need herd immunity?

I don’t think we are being deliberately damaged with a vaccine (or injected with a microchip). But I do think there is far more going on in terms of adverse effects due to neglect or negligence or a desire to sacrifice a few for the majority/economy. I don’t want to be part of that.

Bear in mind that each younger person that gets it is a saved vaccine and I would bet my last pound also someone who won’t need a booster come autumn, either.

We also know more about risk factors and treatments. For some people we are now increasing them to more risk from the vaccine than from covid and morally that makes me feel uncomfortable and it’s not even being discussed in the press. The woman who said it on TV was sacked.

Odd? I think so.

For the same reason we need herd immunity against the other diseases we vaccinate against, to push numbers down to negligible levels to protect those who can't be vaccinated or for whom the vaccine isn't effective.

Genuinely - if vaccinating half the population would do the job why do you think every country in the world has decided to vaccinate everyone? Just for the fun of it?

[quote Sunshinegirl82]@IhateAntivaccers

So is it your view that there is no need to take any action regarding covid because it is not serious and therefore not a problem? I maintain that view is unsustainable because Covid IS serious for enough of the population to be problematic at a population level.[/quote]
Action has been taken, the vulnerable have been vaccinated- why is it" serious for enough of the population to be problematic at a population level."

Yes it is honestly getting to me too, I understand where you are coming from. I've not had the Covid vaccine but I'm not a so called anti vaxxer.

I really don't mind who gets it, it's individual choice but I really do think the decisiveness is getting out of hand.

I have actually also recently deleted my Facebook and Instagram because of this. I'm sick of people (pro and anti vax) pushing their opinions on to me. I'm sick of hearing about it, it's nothing to do with anyone else what you chose to do.