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Why are people still accepting AZ? Will it be stopped?

230 replies

Bitzyboo · 30/05/2021 17:47

DH went for his Covid vaccine today. (Under 40 so he got Moderna)

The queue at the vaccine centre was enormous.
The attended in the car park told us they were running behind on appointments and the queue was for second doses.

Dh got chatting to the guy that did his vaccine, he told him that in their vaccination centre they were using moderna for first doses and AZ were all for second.

It’s really surprised me that there’s such a huge uptake of AZ given the risk associated.
I thought by now it would have been stopped.

Are people still happily accepting it?

OP posts:
MRex · 31/05/2021 06:38

@Torvean

6.5 million doses of AZ given in the UK.

There has been around 290 cases of clots.

There have been 49 deaths.

Of course there are still ppl going for their second AZ vaccines.

These figures aren't correct. 24.2 million first doses of AstraZeneca as of last week and 10.7 million second doses, so close to 35 million shots. 332 cases of clots with thrombocytopenia, 58 of whom died (none of the 17 cases after the second dose died).
rwalker · 31/05/2021 06:48

Out of theses 24.2 million how many would of had blood clots irrespective of AZ.

Twiglets1 · 31/05/2021 07:44

I had my second dose of AZ recently and was very grateful to receive it. We are incredibly fortunate in this country to have access to vaccines including AZ - just look at the drop in our death rate once the vaccines started being rolled out if you are in any doubt about that.

waitingforsun · 31/05/2021 07:45

Had my second dose of AZ yesterday afternoon. Nothing but a sore arm this morning, although I am milking it a bit for a lie in! Wink

First dose gave me hangover type symptoms for about 24 hours, so better with this one. Hope that helps someone who's not sure

HeronLanyon · 31/05/2021 07:49

I had my second AZ over the weekend. There is a lot of misinformation about AZ. Breaking down the figures the risks are eg far less than the risks of women taking the contraceptive pill - a risk that’s deemed perfectly acceptable. And if course far less than the risks associated with Covid itself.
Support all.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 31/05/2021 09:35

OP, I think the people going for the second one are those that had no unusual after effects of the first. Surely no-one would read the risk statistics and be scared off just by those? As others have said we do risk assessments all the time for things like getting on a plane etc

I’m due for my second AZ and dithering. I’m a woman in my 40s. I virtually ran in for my first one in Feb as I was so thrilled snd didn’t even know which version of the vaccine i’d had till I looked at the card when I got home, but I wasn’t good after it, felt worse than I’d felt in years for anything, and my heart rate was 130 for a few hours despite me just lying there not moving and trying to sleep it off, which was extremely unpleasant and scary. I had a headache for a few days after which went to a weird throbbing and pain in my temples for a couple of weeks afterwards, and the circulation in my legs went a bit odd for a couple of weeks, exactly the same when (in hindsight) I think I might have unknowingly had COVID in Feb 20, only then I didn’t feel too bad and just went about my daily business as normal. At the time I booked in for my first jab these cerebral clots hadn’t really happened yet or maybe only one or two had and they hadn’t yet established the link between them and the vaccine.

I’m a woman in my 40s and have had a blood clot before. My dad has had numerous clots in his life and at least one pulmonary embolism. His brother had clots and had an ITP episode. Their sister also had at least one clot. (All well before COVID). It seems there is a pattern of clots in that side of the family, even though I tested negative on a clotting genetic test thingy. My platelets were low on a blood test at around the time I had my clot but not low enough to be investigated. Etc etc etc.

Now, all those things could be totally unrelated, and pure coincidence, but for my own personal situation, given the research is still ongoing, and this is all so new, I am not fully happy at the moment to get the second dose until there is more information.

My GP surgery has been no help. I asked could I discuss it with a GP but they are busy dealing with a backlog of patients so I was advised to phone 119 to discuss with them. Presumably they will tell me to get the second jab as that’s just the standard advice given to all unless you’ve had a confirmed clot episode after the first jab, I think. So I haven’t bothered ringing them yet.

My other option is to try and see if I can pay for a private antibody test to see what kind of level mine are at. I do have a social conscience and realise that if I’m not yet fully vaccinated there is potential for me to be part of the reason for developments of mutations. Although I am still being very careful with regards social mixing, mask wearing and hygiene etc.

So I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place at the moment. It’s hard when you read so many people not understanding those of us with severe reservations about a second jab. it appears to be people with no medical history like mine, who had only mild or short lived side effects after the first one, and who seem to think people like me are in the same bracket as anti-vaxers, and who are too stupid to assess risk or understand statistics. I find it really patronising and honestly wondered whether to submit this post or not.

If the Indian variant gets out of control where I live I will have to bite the bullet and just book the appointment I suppose, and hope for the best. I have never felt like that about any other medical procedure. A “hope for the best” approach at the moment is not what I want from something that is supposed to be protecting me.

So there you are. I’ve explained the reasons I’m dithering over the second dose. I’m sure there must be others like me with a similar experience AS AN INDIVIDUAL, not knowing what to do for the best either.

peachescariad · 31/05/2021 09:36

There is no huge risk

DahliaGardener · 31/05/2021 10:29

I am asking for opinions on what I should do. I am not trying to put people off.

Cornettoninja · 31/05/2021 10:47

@CurlyhairedAssassin I appreciate that you are considering a lot of angles wrt your second dose but I just wanted to make sure that you’re factoring in the fact that after your second dose it still takes a period of time to reach full protection (2-3 weeks off the top of my head).

I only make the point because you say you can envisage a situation where a rise in local cases would tip the balance for you but at that point you have to factor in securing an appointment slot and the biological period the vaccine takes to offer full protection.

I’m sure you have considered it but I had a very similar conversation with a family member who hadn’t considered that by the time we reached a point they would start being concerned it wouldn’t necessarily be a quick process to obtain protection.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 31/05/2021 10:58

Thanks, @Cornettoninja, I hadn't factored in a waiting time actually, no, because the link I was texted with my invitation always seems to have availability of appointments for the same week or week after. I suppose this might change if there was an upsurge in the Indian variant locally.

Cornettoninja · 31/05/2021 11:03

Glad to have been of some help Smile

I had my second vaccination well before my partner and there was a noticeable difference in our personal tolerance levels whereas before we’d be fairly in agreement about where the risk boundaries lay for us, fascinating behaviourally really.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 31/05/2021 11:04

What I can't understand is why they are insisting carrying on with AZ when latest statistics seem to indicate that it's quite a lot less effective than the Pfizer one? I guess they're just trying to get everyone "done" as quickly as possible and any research before the autumn booster programme may change things, particularly as they might have now found a way of modifying the AZ vaccine to prevent it causing these clots in the tiny number of susceptible people. Good news for people like me, anyway, who are concerned that they may fall into that group.

umberellaonesie · 31/05/2021 11:26

I am also a HCP who has to discuss risk with my patients all the time.
Quite often it is better to discuss chance. These are the things that could happen but the chance of it happening is..... and the chance of it happening to you is.....
Risk is a very hard hitting word.

cantkeepawayforever · 31/05/2021 11:28

What I can't understand is why they are insisting carrying on with AZ when latest statistics seem to indicate that it's quite a lot less effective than the Pfizer one?

A HUGE number of people fall into the 'had 1st AZ and now need 2nd' category. As data for mixed vaccines is poor, it is definitely better to give all of us a second dose than to risk mixing vaccines.

The other thing is that, as the third wave threatens, the balance between the risk of not being vaccinated, and that using AZ, tips. Should the third wave grow exponentially, it will almost certainly be much less risky for everyone, of whatever age, to have AZ - if that is what is available quickly - than not to be vaccinated. Essentially, the luxury of 'choice' only applies if cases are low and supplies are abundant. Any vaccine is better than none once cases start rising.

ComDummings · 31/05/2021 11:34

I had my second AZ, I’m early 30s. Why? Because I felt I was probably more likely to get into a car accident driving to get my vaccine than suffer from clots. There are risks of clots with all the vaccines, slightly higher with AZ but there’s a risk of clots with covid too. So I just thought I’d stay vigilant to the symptoms of clots on the teeny off chance I get them. It’s a small risk but we take small risks all day every day.

motherrunner · 31/05/2021 11:38

42 year old secondary teacher here - have had both doses of AZ. I can tell you my mental health is far better these days than it was in the Autumn term when I was unvaccinated and surrounded by Covid.

oneglassandpuzzled · 31/05/2021 12:30

@CurlyhairedAssassin

What I can't understand is why they are insisting carrying on with AZ when latest statistics seem to indicate that it's quite a lot less effective than the Pfizer one? I guess they're just trying to get everyone "done" as quickly as possible and any research before the autumn booster programme may change things, particularly as they might have now found a way of modifying the AZ vaccine to prevent it causing these clots in the tiny number of susceptible people. Good news for people like me, anyway, who are concerned that they may fall into that group.
This isn't quite accurate. It takes longer to reach maximum effectiveness with the AstraZeneca vaccine.

Also, AstraZeneca went out to older groups of individuals who were unable to come into main centres, so you're not comparing with the same set of younger people who might have had Pfizer.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57214596

nordica · 31/05/2021 12:39

@rwalker

Out of theses 24.2 million how many would of had blood clots irrespective of AZ.
Nobody would have had VITT (Vaccine induced Thrombosis and Thrombocytopenia) - low platelets and a blood clot. It does not happen on its own, only after the vaccine (AZ, and some cases after Johnson & Johnson/Janssen in other countries, too).
HeronLanyon · 31/05/2021 14:53

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/more-or-less-behind-the-stats/id267300884?i=1000516528004

This the blood clot data podcast episode mentioned earlier. Whole podcast is great ‘more or less’ they’ve been looking at Covid related data of all sorts.

skyvv90 · 31/05/2021 14:57

Why do people keep talking about all these other clot risks like other vaccines and the pill? Those types of clots are totally different and highly treatable!! I'd be happy to take anything with a risk of that kind of blood clot, but am much less comfortable with the AZ risk even though its very small.

Backofbeyond50 · 31/05/2021 15:09

Well given that I had AZ for my 1st dose it was a given it would be my 2nd dose too. I was advised of the risk but my risk of COVID is far higher.
AZ is a cheap and easy to store and has no doubt contributed to the release of Lockdown and reduced deaths etc.

BuggerBognor · 31/05/2021 15:38

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

LovelyLadyLily · 31/05/2021 16:26

I'm amazed anyone is taking AZ. We have alternative vaccines here. I'm gutted I got AZ (not taking second dose) as the scientists didn't know the risks back then (and still don't full, if we're honest!) If I had my time again there's no bloody way I'd accept the less effective more dangerous vaccine.

Serpenta · 31/05/2021 16:29

Are you really amazed? That's amazing.

Parker231 · 31/05/2021 16:30

I’ve been doing vaccinations - all AZ. Big queues for those having their second vaccine