Anyone not having vaccine , why aren't you?

[LazyDaisy10]

Is anyone not having the vaccine and what are your reasons? Im in my 30s I'm not having the vaccine because I'm worried about the long term effects that might not come to light for a few years. Why are you not having it?
If you think the vaccine is amazing and anyone not having it is selfish you probably don't need to comment.

Questioning things should never be dismissed in the way it is being dismissed at the moment. We would never had got anywhere if people hadn't constantly questioned the popular or accepted narrative.
The people being called anti-vaxxers on this thread are on the whole giving perfectly reasonable answers to the question asked. Why the need to be so incredibly rude? Those being particularly rude seem to be 100% certain that they are knowledgeable but considering how unhealthy most people are, I doubt very much that many of the posters know much about health at all unless mumsnet has a totally different demographic.
This rudeness and shouting down of people is so unpleasant - is this how you treat people in real life? Did you act like this before Covid or have you just been allowed a green light to act like this by the government's nudge policies? And if the latter, you might want to think about why you have been co-opted into being so unpleasant to your fellow human beings and at the very least question that.

The people being called anti-vaxxers on this thread are on the whole giving perfectly reasonable answers to the question asked.

I'm not sure anyone has sensibly answered the question: why avoid the vaccine when statistically the chances it will kill you are so much smaller than the chances of COVID killing you? People talk about not wanting to risk the vaccine but they are exposing themselves to greater risk by not having it. And they worry about unknown long term effects of the vaccine without seeming to consider the equally unknown long term effects of COVID. It just doesn't seem to make sense, even if you completely ignore any ideas about wanting to protect other people, prevent further lockdowns, keep schools open etc.

Cinclus - how many deaths and vaccines in each age group though? If you’re doing a direct comparison you would want to know how many have died from the virus in a particular age group - as you have said - and then compare it to the number of people who died from the vaccine in a particular age group out of the total hunger of vaccines given to that age group.

Also, it’s unlikely that the flu vaccine would kill me but I don’t have it because I’m at very low risk of complications from flu.

I don't know about others, but in my mind, the injection has a fixed date and I will suffer definite side effects and risks after that.

Meanwhile I've successfully avoided covid-19 so far during this pandemic and could probably continue to do so by leading a selfishly isolated life.

This probably reflects my brain's lack of ability to judge risk more than anything else. It might be just as well that there isn't really a choice.

I've never been scared on covid and i trust my immune system but I have had the az jab and due my second in June.

It's hard to explain really as I've been a bit sceptical of masks and sd but when it came to it I had mine.

My children won't be having it tho.

Sorry previous posts to @cinclus

Even if people don't agree, I just don't see why there has to be this aggression and lack of nuance. I know debate was already in a pretty parlous state by the time of the EU referendum but I am shocked, even after 16 months, at people's black and white 'I'm right and your wrong' fervour since Covid. When on earth did people start calling people 'thick as mince' for making a decision about their own health? I felt extremely strongly about the MMR debacle - I call it that because Wakefield did influence a vaccine hesitancy that I don't think was present before him - to the extent I kept my daughter away from unvaccinated family until she was vaccinated. However, I never went round telling them they were thick or stupid or whatever. I just lived my life, kept out of their way for a few months, and then once DD was protected quietly joined back in again. We are not all going to be dying on the streets because some people don't wish to be vaccinated. Can't we just have a bit of measure and reason.

Agreed Florentines, it feels like Brexit discussions all over again, where we discovered that the black and white approach of "Brexit bad, Brexiteeers stupid" didn't do much to help.

Because I am asserting my right to be completely and utterly selfish with regards to my own health.

I have one body and it needs to remain functioning at its best for as long as possible. Other people's susceptibility to covid is their problem to deal with.

I make absolutely no apologies for my stance on this subject.

@bumbleymummy

Cinclus - how many deaths and vaccines in each age group though? If you’re doing a direct comparison you would want to know how many have died from the virus in a particular age group - as you have said - and then compare it to the number of people who died from the vaccine in a particular age group out of the total hunger of vaccines given to that age group.

I think some of that information isn't available yet. The 900ish figure is from all deaths reported in America but even the total is not confirmed yet and maybe never will be, as it's difficult to show that death is caused by vaccination. It will most likely be much lower than that though.

From what I can see, the percentage of people vaccinated who fall into that age bracket (the data I looked at was aged 25-39 for this) is about the same as that age group as a percentage of the whole population, roughly 20%. So let's say out of a total population of 325M, there are about 65M Americans aged 25-39 and 18M of them have had at least one dose of the vaccine.

There have been about 7800 COVID deaths in that age group, so the chance of contracting and then dying from COVID is about 0.012%.

If we assume that every reported vaccine death was in fact caused by the vaccine (unlikely) and that every single person who died was in this age group, (very unlikely), the risk of dying from the vaccine would be 0.005%. The risk of death from vaccination is still smaller, even in that impossibly worst case scenario.

*Disclaimer: rusty stats skills so please feel free to correct if necessary

Because I am asserting my right to be completely and utterly selfish with regards to my own health.

This is what I don't get - how is putting yourself at a greater risk of death being completely and utterly selfish?

Op if you are happy in your choice and it is your choice why do you need validation?
I realy do question the motives of numerous threads like this. It just appears to be a vehicle for encouraging others not to have the vaccine.
Also it is a public forum so you don't really get to choose who posts and who doesn't.
Had both my doses of AZ but than I am an oldie.

@Cinclus

Because I am asserting my right to be completely and utterly selfish with regards to my own health.

This is what I don't get - how is putting yourself at a greater risk of death being completely and utterly selfish?

Would you say that to people who don’t get the flu vaccine each year? The majority of people don’t have that vaccine(aren’t even offered it!)even though it’s very unlikely to kills us.

Flu isn’t transmitted at the same rate as Covid and the numbers of deaths aren’t comparable.

I feel like I'm living in the Middle Ages right now I thought we were in the era of enlightenment? Clearly not

This thread

I will not be having the vaccine. I'm a fairly healthy, 50 yr old with no underlying conditions.

In my semi rural area of 115,000 there has been 46 deaths which is only 0.04% of the population.

With the exception of some cases and deaths back in March/April 2020 my area hasn't seen ANY evidence of a pandemic since early last year

@Rosehip10

Have or don't have it OP, but why start a thread looking for smoke blowing to validate your choice?

You can not expect to post this and not get trolled or flamed on MN. Or anywhere else for that matter. Now you've stuck your neck out the guns will be taking fire. So many can't have it for medical reasons. Some because of a long family history of blood clotting problems. Some won't have it because there have been hardly any trial participants from their ethnic groups, which does make a difference. That's why India has had a few problems. They know that genetic differences mean they may be more susceptible to certain side effects than the typical trial groups. However they are ridiculed too. The general sweeping idea if 'shut the phuck up and just do your bit and take it'. Anything else and you're a selfish prat. Researching peer reviewed medical website is a complete no no as it will leave you with more questions than you started with. Do your own thing and keep it to yourself. Otherwise you have to become a Rhino. Good luck.

@Parker231

Flu isn’t transmitted at the same rate as Covid and the numbers of deaths aren’t comparable.

@parker231 So? The point is that the flu vaccine itself is unlikely to harm us but we don’t all rush out to get it if we’re not in high risk groups. (Sometimes not even then). We don’t insult people and call them stupid, selfish and irresponsible for choosing not to have the flu vaccine ‘for the greater good’ because the personal risk to them is ‘minuscule’.

^ This should have been for the OP @LazyDaisy10

Would you say that to people who don’t get the flu vaccine each year? The majority of people don’t have that vaccine(aren’t even offered it!)even though it’s very unlikely to kills us.

Well I don't have the data for flu but if I did and it showed that the risk of death from flu was significant, and it was greater than the risk of death from the flu jab, and people were offered the flu jab for free and were turning it down, yes I would wonder why.

@Cinclus People in the higher risk groups get offered the vaccine every year and many turn it down. I think uptake is around 70% in the groups that are offered it. The flu vaccine itself is unlikely to kill them, flu might, but we don’t ridicule them for their decision. Nor do we lay the guilt on to the rest of the population for not having a low risk vaccine ‘for the greater good’.

[quote bumbleymummy]@Cinclus People in the higher risk groups get offered the vaccine every year and many turn it down. I think uptake is around 70% in the groups that are offered it. The flu vaccine itself is unlikely to kill them, flu might, but we don’t ridicule them for their decision. Nor do we lay the guilt on to the rest of the population for not having a low risk vaccine ‘for the greater good’.[/quote]
I guess this is partly to do with the lower risk that flu presents, it doesn't kill nearly as many people as COVID has and is harder to catch.

But whatever people say or don't say to those who turn down the flu vaccine, it doesn't change my point that people seem to find it hard to explain rationally why they are not taking the opportunity to lower their chance of death right now. (Apart from those who cannot take the COVID vaccine of course.)