Anyone not having vaccine , why aren't you?

[LazyDaisy10]

Is anyone not having the vaccine and what are your reasons? Im in my 30s I'm not having the vaccine because I'm worried about the long term effects that might not come to light for a few years. Why are you not having it?
If you think the vaccine is amazing and anyone not having it is selfish you probably don't need to comment.

Crunchy - please would you link the evidence

@110APiccadilly

I'm breastfeeding and low risk from Covid, so my personal risk assessment is that I won't have it until I'm no longer breastfeeding. There's an additional advantage that by that time we'll probably have more knowledge about side effects.

But the vaccine won't reach your breasmilk- the antibodies you raise to Covid likely will though

Im amazed at the stupidity of the "pro vaxxers". They remind me of members of a religious cult where no alternatives or contrary evidence is allowed. You pro vaxxer - just for a moment allow yourself to question the motives of your governments and the pressures and manipulations imposed on people to take a medication for which no-one takes any responsibility!!! A medication that has caused more complications and deaths recently than all vaccines together in the last 10 years and we have no clue what the consequences will be on the long run!! Idiots!

[quote CrunchyCarrot]Educate yourselves about immune responses to this virus by reading this paper by two top researchers in the field, Alessandro Sette and Shane Crotty. They have analysed masses of data and are my go-to source for most things Covid-related.

www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(21)00007-6.pdf[/quote]
The conclusion to that review literally says 'we don't know yet'

[quote Parker231]@Crispychillibeef - I agree but don’t know any anti vaxxers in real life. My family and friends have either all had the vaccine or as in the case of 21 year old DT’s are waiting for their turn.[/quote]
I don’t know any anti vaxxers in real life either. I know quite a few people who aren’t having this vaccine though.

@Tiktokersmiracle Why would we be stuck like this next year? Don’t you think the vaccine is going to work? Look how few hospitalisations and deaths there are now - and millions of people still haven’t been vaccinated.

gobble - I didn’t feel pressured from anyone to have the vaccine. I’m also a volunteer vaccinator and the days I do vaccinations are such a positive day as people are looking for to getting their protection from a virus which could make them ill, transmit it to others or at worst kill them. There is nothing better than a queue of very happy people every time I do a shift.

I won’t be having it because I am in my 30s, no underlying health conditions and not overweight so the chance of me getting very sick from Covid is very small. I’m definitely not an anti vaxxer, I have had loads of different ones in the past due to traveling to far countries but the difference is that those vaccines have been around for a long time and I trust them. I worry that this one has been rushed too much and therefor I don’t want it. I don’t think it’s fair of society to ask me to put something in my body that I’m absolutely not comfortable with, just to protect the health of others. I prioritize my own health first and anyone who is calling me selfish is doing exactly the same thing because they don’t want me to take the vaccine for me, but for THEIR health.

@gobblegobbleturkey

Im amazed at the stupidity of the "pro vaxxers". They remind me of members of a religious cult where no alternatives or contrary evidence is allowed. You pro vaxxer - just for a moment allow yourself to question the motives of your governments and the pressures and manipulations imposed on people to take a medication for which no-one takes any responsibility!!! A medication that has caused more complications and deaths recently than all vaccines together in the last 10 years and we have no clue what the consequences will be on the long run!! Idiots!

Zzzzzzz

I never thought of the vaccines being rushed - more like amazing. It took unlimited worldwide cash, some clever and highly motivated people, all the world’s trial infrastructure, an almost unlimited pool of altruistic, wonderful trial volunteers and some sensible regulators.

Hi OP

There are many many things in life that we won't know the long term effects of but we can't live in fear. We must address the problem, the very serious problem we have now.

We don't know the long term effects of the flu jab either because the flu mutates every year and the vaccine is adjusted accordingly

We don't know the long term effects of Covid do we? I have a feeling those will be worse than that of a vaccination.

But we do know that the short term effects of covid have been catastrophic. I'm talking about the lock down, the deaths, the strain on the nhs

We need to do what we can to bring this disaster to an end before it mutates even more like it is doing in India and South America

@Parker231

gobble - I didn’t feel pressured from anyone to have the vaccine. I’m also a volunteer vaccinator and the days I do vaccinations are such a positive day as people are looking for to getting their protection from a virus which could make them ill, transmit it to others or at worst kill them. There is nothing better than a queue of very happy people every time I do a shift.

That's because they now have hope of COVID salvation!! Happiness is not a confirmation that they or you are doing the right thing. Would you still happy when they get side effects or die ? Do you actually know what you're injecting? I doubt it, you just do what you are told to do.

The vaccine could accelerate cancers. We don't know if if it will or not do we.

So could covid though?

So it's just a cold that you got over and feel fine.

But it could also be still in your body, unbeknown to you, festering in your lungs and growing a massive tumour that could kill you n 3 years time

But You won't be able to get treated cos the hospitals are overwhelmed and w me are in all in lockdown 5!

Please let's get the vaccine and move on with life

@CrunchyCarrot

You mention asymptomatic people, but what about others who have had the virus mild-moderately, i.e. ill but nowhere near hospitalised (like me).

What does that tell you about longer-term immunity and immune response? I'd be grateful for your thoughts.

@Parker231

Crunchy - please would you link the evidence

Immunological memory to SARS-COV-2 assessed for up to 8 months after infection:

science.sciencemag.org/content/371/6529/eabf4063

Conclusion:

CONCLUSION
Substantial immune memory is generated after COVID-19, involving all four major types of immune memory. About 95% of subjects retained immune memory at ~6 months after infection. Circulating antibody titers were not predictive of T cell memory. Thus, simple serological tests for SARS-CoV-2 antibodies do not reflect the richness and durability of immune memory to SARS-CoV-2. This work expands our understanding of immune memory in humans. These results have implications for protective immunity against SARS-CoV-2 and recurrent COVID-19.

"Adaptive Immunity and Immune Memory to SARS-COV-2 after Covid-19" - Prof Shane Crotty - 1 hr 25 mins. Starts around 10 mins into the video.

Immune Memory in Mild COVID-19 Patients and Unexposed Donors Reveals Persistent T Cell Responses After SARS-CoV-2 Infection

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33777028/

@gobblegobbleturkey

Im amazed at the stupidity of the "pro vaxxers". They remind me of members of a religious cult where no alternatives or contrary evidence is allowed. You pro vaxxer - just for a moment allow yourself to question the motives of your governments and the pressures and manipulations imposed on people to take a medication for which no-one takes any responsibility!!! A medication that has caused more complications and deaths recently than all vaccines together in the last 10 years and we have no clue what the consequences will be on the long run!! Idiots!

It is indeed strange that we aren't all stopping to consider alternate arguments. Especially when so eloquently put to us.

How many exclamation marks did you use there?

Have a word with yourself.

A medication that has caused more complications and deaths recently than all vaccines together in the last 10 years

This is an odd point to make because the choice is not between this vaccine and other vaccines. The choice is between this vaccine and the chance of getting a disease which is many times more likely to cause us harm. Seems pretty sensible to go for the option which has the smallest risk to our health, doesn't it?

More complications and deaths is meaningless without quantifying it in terms of % total population given the vaccines and comparing it with deaths from Covid. That's the problem with sweeping statements like this.

As I mentioned, I'm getting it done (so no need to round on me!) but in terms of speed, for me it's less "they've skipped steps in making it" and more that we have no longitudinal data at all on the results of this. I am worried, like I am about any medication, but I guess that's life.

[quote switchname]@CrunchyCarrot

You mention asymptomatic people, but what about others who have had the virus mild-moderately, i.e. ill but nowhere near hospitalised (like me).

What does that tell you about longer-term immunity and immune response? I'd be grateful for your thoughts.
[/quote]
Well let me say from the outset I'm certainly no expert on this. I've a biochemistry degree so am a scientist by training, but not a virologist/immunologist. During this pandemic I've tried to make sense of what's going on via a science-oriented perspective, particularly looking for research papers or discussions by scientists on YouTube.

My DP had Covid mildly, very mildly really. Just with a high fever for a few days, then he recovered. Fortunately no lung involvement. As I said up thread, I had Covid asymptomatically at the same time (only found out later via an antibody test, as DP had a positive response and I thought I should check myself). After that I've been very curious as to why some people are asymptomatic or shrug off the virus quickly, whilst others get very ill or even die. How can some of us get over a virus so fast when it's a novel virus?

What I've found out via reading is that the SARS-COV-2 virus has a 'trick' and that is that it's pretty good at evading our innate immune response, which is the first thing that kicks in when you get infected with anything. As a result, the virus can get a better head start so that one's immune system will then be playing catch up to get it under control and get an adaptive immune response going (the T cells) which happens around a week into infection. For those who become very ill, they have a weaker T cell response and cannot get the virus under control easily, or perhaps at all. For those who show a good T cell response, the virus gives a milder version of the disease and they recover. Of course there's a spectrum ranging from asymptomatic all the way through mild, moderate, severe and death. It's very much an individual thing.

However that still didn't explain to me how some folk are asymptomatic in the first place, or only very mildly. The answer could lie in past Coronavirus infections and T cell memory, apparently. There is some cross-reactivity between the Coronavirus family so this would give some of us T cell memory, potentially enough to fight off the virus very rapidly. This has been shown to happen in related flu strains. So perhaps we've had some Coronavirus infection in the past which is enough to arm our T memory cells with enough info to quickly mount an attack on the SARS-COV-2 virus. That's where my thoughts are, currently. I find the whole subject fascinating.

Pre-existing immunity to SARS-CoV-2: the knowns and unknowns

www.nature.com/articles/s41577-020-0389-z

There's also this seminar, came out in the last week:

T Cells: A New Hope for Lasting Protection against SARS-COV-2 (came out 5 days ago):

@gobblegobbleturkey - I know what I’ve been giving in the vaccine - a life saver.

Thank you @CrunchyCarrot for going into much detail.

I will look at the links later.

I think it's wise to exercise critical thinking and do your own research before taking the vaccine when there are so many unknowns regarding the virus and vaccine.

It's only natural to worry about the long term effects of a new vaccine. We just don't know how its going to affect us if at all. But I've had mine.

No idea tbh, but the vaccine takeup is lower in ethnic minorities so I'm sure different cultures have different views to the vaccines and they should be respected. You can't have people moaning about racism in the UK on one thread and not respecting their wishes with vaccines etc on another- it isn't a pick and mix where you cherry pick what different groups of people do to fit a narrative that is deemed acceptable for one thing and not the otheR”

So, you don’t actually know but are assuming religious reasons because “ethnic minorities”.

Ok, then.

@MotherOfGodWeeFella

More complications and deaths is meaningless without quantifying it in terms of % total population given the vaccines and comparing it with deaths from Covid. That's the problem with sweeping statements like this.

In America, 6299 people aged 30-39 have died of COVID, out of about 44M people in that age group. So 0.015% of everyone aged 30-39, those who have contracted the disease and those who haven't, have died.

There have been 960 deaths reported that might or might not have been caused by the vaccine, they don't know yet. That's out of 90M people vaccinated. That's about 0.001%, so the odds seem to be in favour of the vaccine.

TheVolturi

It's only natural to worry about the long term effects of a new vaccine. We just don't know how its going to affect us if at all. But I've had mine.“

Had both of mine too, thankfully. Not the least worried because as I understand it (happy to be corrected by a qualified professional) vaccines don’t present with long-term effects. Any problems are quickly apparent.