What is going on in Bolton?

[Cloudsurfing]

Over 300/100,000 rate now, and still rising. This surely can't just be the Indian variant can it? Nowhere else seems to be this high and 86 counties now have the variant. Will the government do a local lockdown? surely they can't let people meet inside when cases are so high there?

@Roussette

WHY are PEOPLE not expected to take responsibility for unnecessary travel?

Because if your Government tells you it's OK to come home from India after visiting your family.... you do just that.
It's quite simple to work out.

So listen to the government if it suits your plans but ignore the government when it doesn't?

If people can't take personal responsibility for properly self-isolating after travelling then it's on them, not the government.

Local lockdowns won't work anymore.

Just like having different rules for those who see vaccinated to those who aren't won't work.

The only semblance of making it work would be one rule for all.

And tbh if serious illness and fatalities don't occur following the increase of numbers I'm not sure they're needed either. Case numbers alone aren't necessarily an issue.

OK - Government needs to wake up to the fact that not everyone has confidence in the vaccines they are touting and offer vaccine choice.

If people can't take personal responsibility for properly self-isolating after travelling then it's on them, not the government.

But it isn't just on them, is it, if they then go on to infect others?

Once again cases surge in the North - it’s all the plebs fault for not following the rules. Happened with Liverpool and greater Manchester last year. Cases surged in Kent oh that’s due to the new variant. The difference in reporting is awful.

@LucilleTheVampireBat

I heard on the radio that the hospitals have a high number admitted wit Covid who could have had the vaccine but didn’t

Did you really? I wonder why the radio are spreading misinformation. 19 people are in hospital. 19. The population of Bolton is near 200,000. That really isn't a "high number".

@LucilleTheVampireBat yes, it is really very very very high. For comparison , Wales has a population of 3.2 million, so 16x the population of Bolton. In THE WHOLE OF WALES there are only 17 people in hospital with covid 19.

Another Bolton dweller here and I totally agree with what Mightyducks said: its a combination of factors surrounding a particular community. I also think think that the case numbers are higher because we are are being tested for it more aggressively. I took my daughter for a PCR test last week as she had a cough (like most of her classmates) and the test centre pretty much insisted that I was tested too despite having no symptoms. Both our tests were negative but if other areas are not testing in this way, it will make Bolton's figures look bad by comparison.

That is people’s right, and if that person is a lone wolf who stays at home mostly and limits social interaction then it wouldn’t be so much of a problem. The trouble is when vaccine refusers also live a “spreading” life and seem oblivious or ambivalent about serious illness or risk of death.

There are actually hardly any vaccine refusers. And for each person who has refused a vaccine a different person has taken their slot. Given that younger people have, on average, more contacts each day than older people, the vaccination slot being used by a younger person (only eligible because someone older refused) may actually have a bigger impact on spread. Which is why some countries vaccinated the working age population first.

We can worry about (or blame if you are a dickhead) the vaccine refusers once everyone eligible has been offered a vaccine.

@Lalliella

Lockdown Bolton, get the troops on the streets and tell people to stay the fuck home. Thoroughly sick of this, it needs ending.

Can I just stay home or do I have to stay the fuck home?

@Livelovebehappy

cutiebear rather that than the alternative. Which to some people would be to let the people of Bolton go about their lives as normal, visiting other area and countries, and pushing us back into national lockdown.

Yes, cases are rising, but deaths “with Covid19” are only in double figures in the UK. Why employ the army to roam the streets? It’s not the bubonic plague or a nuclear threat. This will cause unnecessary panic. Hitler said restrictions were for the “greater good” and created divisions between poor and wealthy, and divisions between religions. Just cover your mouth when you cough and wash your hands.

@Abraxan

Local lockdowns won't work anymore.

Just like having different rules for those who see vaccinated to those who aren't won't work.

The only semblance of making it work would be one rule for all.

And tbh if serious illness and fatalities don't occur following the increase of numbers I'm not sure they're needed either. Case numbers alone aren't necessarily an issue.

I disagree with your point regarding different rules for those who are unvaccinated.

The vast majority of adults will be vaccinated and the NHS mobile app now has a vaccination status screen/report for use as a vaccine passport - if you have the app take a look.

If there's a minority who aren't vaccinated - by choice - they're not going to have any say in how vaccine passports are used. It will just become common place.

The ridiculous idea that if you are un-vaccinated you will kill people is being spread irresponsibly.

If you have Covid - yes, you can spread it, so you isolate. If you are healthy and numbers are low the risk of catching it is small in the first place.

Even the vaccinated can catch and spread Covid, albeit to a lesser degree.

This is nothing to do with public health, this is an exercise in judgement and moral outrage and diverting scrutiny away from poor governmental policy and actions.

I can’t see any solution. Those who spread won’t get vaccinated. Even when vaccine vans roam the streets people refuse, so it’s not a case of not being able to get to a centre, it’s a simple No.

That is people’s right, and if that person is a lone wolf who stays at home mostly and limits social interaction then it wouldn’t be so much of a problem. The trouble is when vaccine refusers also live a “spreading” life and seem oblivious or ambivalent about serious illness or risk of death.

I agree. I'm at the point where I can't get too wound up about the numbers. I'm still following the rules, I'm glad all my loved ones have had at least one jab, I feel sorry for those who can't be vaccinated for health reasons but beyond that, if people want to take the risks of no-vaccine that's up to them (I know they're risking other people's health etc etc but that isn't going to persuade them).

I think the number of people who genuinely can't get to a vaccine hub is small - round here we've still got the volunteer system who will take people if need be (quite a rural area). And GPs have vaccinated the housebound.

If there's a minority who aren't vaccinated - by choice - they're not going to have any say in how vaccine passports are used. It will just become common place.

There are plenty of people who have been vaccinated and strongly object to the use of vaccine passports within our own country (me included!). People who genuinely choose not to take up the offer of a vaccine have every right to do so, and should not be bullied or coerced in to undergoing a medical procedure they do not want. It is a slippery slope that many of us are very wary of.

I just don't get why people are falling for this narrative from the government.

Some of the unvaccinated won't have been eligible - and there are still a third. A THIRD of people in hospital who've had one or both jabs (one case was fully vaccinated).

I've had one dose. I'd really hoped that would stop me being hospitalised - isn't it quite concerning that people with one dose can end up in hospital? Because it's only the minority of the population that have had two jabs and if we get exponential growth in cases of this variant that is a LOT of people in hospital.

Let's also remember that hospitalisations lag behind infections by at least 2 weeks.

Sorry to dampen the flames of hate for Bolton but this isn’t solely down to Boltonians breaking rules, it’s the nature of the variant itself.

This situation is very different to previous outbreaks because of the higher transmissibility of the Indian variant.

You think the schools and supermarkets in Bolton are not the same as the ones in your town?

You think people in your town weren’t doing the ‘it’s only a quick brew and we were sat apart on two separate sofas’ indoors gatherings whilst we were told not to? The explosion of numbers are not indicative of mass rule breaking in one northern town, far from it.

The variant is easier to catch, much easier than the Kent one that spread very quickly here at Christmas. What is happening in Bolton will happen pretty much everywhere, it’s called exponential growth 📈 their numbers are higher because clearly someone brought in the variant there and didn’t follow and quarantine guidelines properly, or they did and this thing still managed to get out of control.

If we see this high rate of transmission continue around the country then every town and city will be in Bolton’s position in a matter of weeks especially now we are mixing more freely indoors and so many people travelled from India to the UK.

We may also end up being caught off guard by the rate the variant will progress. I expect Covid fatigue has started to set in for many people who may now pass off a cough or sore throat as being nothing more than a ‘summer’ cold over the coming few weeks because the numbers may appear lower when in actual fact they haven’t yet caught up. Add to the mix a false sense of security because they may have had a vaccine and we’re looking at a potentially difficult situation.

@IloveJKRowling

I just don't get why people are falling for this narrative from the government.

Some of the unvaccinated won't have been eligible - and there are still a third. A THIRD of people in hospital who've had one or both jabs (one case was fully vaccinated).

I've had one dose. I'd really hoped that would stop me being hospitalised - isn't it quite concerning that people with one dose can end up in hospital? Because it's only the minority of the population that have had two jabs and if we get exponential growth in cases of this variant that is a LOT of people in hospital.

Let's also remember that hospitalisations lag behind infections by at least 2 weeks.

I'm not falling for the Narrative,but I do actually live in Bolton and can see what's going on around me ,some people are not helping themselves ,to the detriment of the rest of us .

@ChloeCrocodile

People who genuinely choose not to take up the offer of a vaccine have every right to do so, and should not be bullied or coerced in to undergoing a medical procedure they do not want.

It's no more bullying and coercing than saying you need a driving licence to drive on the roads.

You absolutely have the choice to not be vaccinated but it may mean you're then excluded from some areas of life.

I'm sure there'll be a few wackos who'll be organising marches in protest, etc, but you'll be a minority.

@IloveJKRowling

I just don't get why people are falling for this narrative from the government.

Some of the unvaccinated won't have been eligible - and there are still a third. A THIRD of people in hospital who've had one or both jabs (one case was fully vaccinated).

I've had one dose. I'd really hoped that would stop me being hospitalised - isn't it quite concerning that people with one dose can end up in hospital? Because it's only the minority of the population that have had two jabs and if we get exponential growth in cases of this variant that is a LOT of people in hospital.

Let's also remember that hospitalisations lag behind infections by at least 2 weeks.

There are less than 1000 people in hospital with Covid right now. On average that is less than one person per hospital. I honestly don’t think there is any reason to panic. No vaccine is 100% effective but it’s doing a great job of reducing numbers of people hospitalised. Even in Bolton there are only 19 people in hospital because of it.

Let’s also not blame the unvaccinated, under 40s everywhere we’re not eligible for vaccination until this started to shoot upwards. Men in vans going around dishing out jabs or deploying the army will not stop this, the horse bolted weeks ago.

The government will learn a big lesson about over promising to the public when variables are too high over this. Allowing May 17th to go ahead wasn’t just adding fuel to the fire, it was a flame thrower. Please stay vigilant everyone.

SofiaMichelle

When I say they wouldn't work I mean the way they'd be perceived and taken into account by people in the U.K.
They wouldn't let it get going / there'd be uproar from too many people.

Whether they are a good idea or not is another matter.

Obviously if other countries choose to use them that's their choice.
Some of the unvaccinated through choice may change there kind if it prevented them from going to certain countries but who knows how many.

@Goodasgolden completely agree.
Some of the comments people are making are shocking. They should be ashamed of themselves.

I've had one dose. I'd really hoped that would stop me being hospitalised - isn't it quite concerning that people with one dose can end up in hospital?

It's only a concern if we knew when they'd been vaccinated - more or less than 3-4 weeks ago?
And how ill they actually are.

No vaccine is 100% effective for 100% of al people.

Though these vaccines appear to prevent almost all serious illness from Covid so hopefully that's the case but we don't actually know the situation of those patients.

We have been told that many of those ill in hospital were eligible but not vaccinated. We don't know why they were yet vaccinated, or if they were refusing it entirely.

Too many unanswered questions to really make any judgements tbh.

I'm sorry, I can't contribute to the discussion about Bolton, as I live on an island which I think is mishandling the pandemic, not helped by a quarter of medical professionals in hospitals here refusing to be vaccinated. Anyway, I gave up on understanding anything when my local doctor told me he knew of several patients of his, who live locally, who had tested positive for Coronavirus and who weren't feeling that ill, so they continued about their daily lives, going to work, shopping, socialising, going to family gatherings, with no self-isolation at all and not bothering to warn people about their positive status. What to do?