To refuse the vaccine for this reason

[SEmyarse]

Goodness know why I'm doing this since I'm most averse to being flamed and I'm going to get grilled alive.

My reason being that I don't think that it will work. I don't mean the vaccine itself, I have no specialist knowledge. I mean the whole strategy of vaccinating everyone.

So we're told that the vaccine is good for personal protection. Got it - no-one wants to die of this nasty disease.
And then we're told that its good to protect those around us. Absolutely got it - even if there's a possibility of nasty side effects, I'm not important in the grand scheme, it's a risk assessment for everyone's benefit.

So of course I'd get the vaccine if those were the only considerations.
But surely that only works if we're isolated from the rest of the world. I know there's been lots of talk of helping poorer countries with their vaccine programmes, but really? We're expecting countries who struggle with persistent poverty, illness, war to prioritise this? It's just not going to happen is it? I just can't see it. And it really feels like we're just doing it to stop them giving it back to us.

And even within our own country, and even with our apparently very successful roll-out, I can't see this being sustainable. We already know that it's going to have to be repeated very frequently. Volunteers won't do it forever, halls etc can't be commandeered forever can they? The numbers are way bigger than the flu scheme.

So then we're back to risk assessment. I'm still not massively bothered by the possibility of side effects, but it does seem unwise to take it if I genuinely don't believe it will work or make things better.

In fact I'd go so far as to say that I'm concerned it's going to make things worse. If there was any way of having the young catch it in fairly quick succession, so from a super spreader, surely that would be safer. It would be transmitted in a smaller number of moves, thus less likely to mutate. As it is though we are forcing it though narrower channels of transmission (by social distancing etc), from person, to person, to person etc, giving it much more chance to change. Of course there is no way of doing this safely though. And then we have absolutely no influence when it lands abroad in much larger populations who often have no choice but to carry on, and there we are with another variant, with quite a possibility it will change enough to be a problem.

I honestly believe that the only sensible use of vaccines is for the most vulnerable, to do our best in an out of control situation.

You are completely unreasonable.

@SEmyarse

This is the bit `I struggle with. Why would we not have an India (or wherever) again and again.

Because people would be vaccinated?

@SEmyarse

This is the bit `I struggle with. Why would we not have an India (or wherever) again and again.

No one is saying we won't, In fact they have said we will

But the more people vaccinated, the less chance

The more people vaccinated the fewer people will die.

What if people in the past had said let's not bother with a vaccine because another disease will be along shortly

This is the bit `I struggle with. Why would we not have an India (or wherever) again and again.

They're nowhere near vaccinating everyone in India. I don't understand your point.

But surely that only works if we're isolated from the rest of the world.

I don't understand how you draw this inference.

How will some Africans not being vaccinated nullify the protection it gives you?

How will Africans being free to pass it on to each other cause vaccinated people in the UK to pass it on to each other?

@SEmyarse

This is the bit `I struggle with. Why would we not have an India (or wherever) again and again.

Well the perfect way for that to happen would be if the virus was able to mutate because it was able to run rampant amongst a population... Can you not see how as many people as possible being vaccinated may help a wee bit? Or are you just deliberately tying yourself in knots? Your argument, if anything, cements why as many people as possible SHOULD be vaccinated to try to prevent that

And yeah, to the person that asked me to define work, I'd love to know the objective too.

Work to me means reduce to and remain at a manageable level and yes I think this is attainable

And I really resent being bundled in with 'loons'. I've got no theories about microchips or lizards or anything.

If someone could explain to me why we're not going to be right back here in a few months when immunity has worn off, I would be really grateful and I'd go off and have the jab. I really don't want to be party to prolonging this whole mess unnecessarily (and taking admittedly very small risks in the process).

I've noticed that as vaccine refusal becomes less and less tolerated the vaccine refusers are coming up with stranger excuses to justify themselves.

Vaccines stop millions more from becoming infected, hospitalised and dying. So while we're vaccinating, less people are becoming infected, hospitalised and dying.

Seriously. It's not hard. I got a C in GCSE Science and I understand.

How do you not fall down more?

Vaccinating now will slow down mutations, getting the vaccine now will give you some immunity even if it does mutate, and reduce it in the population so fewer people get it.

Yes having it now will give you protection but you'll also protect those who can't have it because you don't spread it. Yes some will bring it in from abroad but it'll have nowhere to spread to of everyone gets the vaccine.

We r not safe until we are all safe get the jab

I hope you never see a house on fire and not bother calling the fire brigade because houses burn down and people die all the time 😐

@Whitchurch

It's not even worth arguing against this. You just crack on Op, but please don't start spreading your theories around social media and risk people believing your fantasy and deciding no need for them to be vaccinated either.

What this person said. Look, OP, you do you. Get vaccinated, don't get vaccinated. But don't start scaremongering and telling lies and nonsense on social media, and get other gullible idiots believing the same thing.

You appear incapable of responding to reason and your argument, if I dignify it with that title, is nonsensical

I do agree that the objective of vaccinating the whole world is a great one, but it really is not possible.

Even if the whole country needs to be vaccinated once a year, that will be an administratively trivial task to accomplish, once we have unlimited vaccine supply and know we have to put permanent full-time facilities in place.

@SEmyarse

I do agree that the objective of vaccinating the whole world is a great one, but it really is not possible.

May as well not bother trying to save lives then eh!! Can't save them all so not point trying to save anyone

@SEmyarse

I'm not anti-vax. I just can't see how this can possibly work on a worldwide level.

But it IS working. On a worldwide level. Most countries are implementing a fairly effective vaccine rollout, or have extremely low numbers and tight border controls which for now compensate for their slower vaccination rate. 'The UK is leading this race', which is what you hear on the BBC news, isn't a lie, but that doesn't mean everyone else is years behind. I'm in an European country which the UK has called very slow when it comes to vaccines. We're 6 weeks behind the UK. I wouldn't call that a failing vaccination system, in the long run everyone will be more or less at the same point in a few months.

Let's face it, in a country such as South Sudan, where the vaccine rollout is incredibly slow, a very small number of people will be traveling internationally for holidays and spreading the virus inadvertently. The risk is much smaller, because less people have the financial means to adopt the lifestyle of the average European holiday maker. And if they have the money for flights, they probably also have the money to source the vaccine privately.

People traveling this summer will mostly be going to and from countries with a similar epidemiological situation. The vaccine is working on a worldwide level, I don't understand why you would think otherwise?

@SEmyarse

Yes, ICU is grim, I'm terrified of the place. I'm actually really scared of this virus. But it feels like totally the wrong thing to get the vaccine if I feel it's just for personal protection.

Do you wear a seat belt in the car when you’re on your own?

YABU

@SEmyarse

These are my conclusions from listening to the scientists and seeing what's happening. What have I got wrong?

Absolutely everything.

@SEmyarse

I'm not anti-vax. I just can't see how this can possibly work on a worldwide level.

Well it's not going to work at all if people don't have it! 🤦‍♀️

If someone could explain to me why we're not going to be right back here in a few months when immunity has worn off, I would be really grateful and I'd go off and have the jab

How is never being vaccinated better than being vaccinated however often is necessary to give the benefits the vaccine gives?