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To refuse the vaccine for this reason

596 replies

SEmyarse · 18/05/2021 19:09

Goodness know why I'm doing this since I'm most averse to being flamed and I'm going to get grilled alive.

My reason being that I don't think that it will work. I don't mean the vaccine itself, I have no specialist knowledge. I mean the whole strategy of vaccinating everyone.

So we're told that the vaccine is good for personal protection. Got it - no-one wants to die of this nasty disease.
And then we're told that its good to protect those around us. Absolutely got it - even if there's a possibility of nasty side effects, I'm not important in the grand scheme, it's a risk assessment for everyone's benefit.

So of course I'd get the vaccine if those were the only considerations.
But surely that only works if we're isolated from the rest of the world. I know there's been lots of talk of helping poorer countries with their vaccine programmes, but really? We're expecting countries who struggle with persistent poverty, illness, war to prioritise this? It's just not going to happen is it? I just can't see it. And it really feels like we're just doing it to stop them giving it back to us.

And even within our own country, and even with our apparently very successful roll-out, I can't see this being sustainable. We already know that it's going to have to be repeated very frequently. Volunteers won't do it forever, halls etc can't be commandeered forever can they? The numbers are way bigger than the flu scheme.

So then we're back to risk assessment. I'm still not massively bothered by the possibility of side effects, but it does seem unwise to take it if I genuinely don't believe it will work or make things better.

In fact I'd go so far as to say that I'm concerned it's going to make things worse. If there was any way of having the young catch it in fairly quick succession, so from a super spreader, surely that would be safer. It would be transmitted in a smaller number of moves, thus less likely to mutate. As it is though we are forcing it though narrower channels of transmission (by social distancing etc), from person, to person, to person etc, giving it much more chance to change. Of course there is no way of doing this safely though. And then we have absolutely no influence when it lands abroad in much larger populations who often have no choice but to carry on, and there we are with another variant, with quite a possibility it will change enough to be a problem.

I honestly believe that the only sensible use of vaccines is for the most vulnerable, to do our best in an out of control situation.

OP posts:
SEmyarse · 18/05/2021 19:32

No, I'm not an expert
No, I'm not advocating giving it to kids, I just meant theoretically.
And yeah, to the person that asked me to define work, I'd love to know the objective too.

OP posts:
HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 18/05/2021 19:33

The objective surely is that cases get (and remain) very low in the general population. A bit like flu.

SEmyarse · 18/05/2021 19:35

So as far as I can tell people are happy to vaccinate so they don't catch it in the short term, and don't give it to others in the short term.

But then long term we'll just give boosters to the vulnerable, and most of us will have worn off immunity. so why not do that now?

The only possible reason would be if there's likely to be significantly better treatment in the future.

OP posts:
SEmyarse · 18/05/2021 19:36

Yes, very low cases is a good objective. But do you really think this is possible?

OP posts:
VillanellesOrangeCoat · 18/05/2021 19:36

And re the side effects… presumably you don’t take any medication at all then. Because they all carry the risk of side effects 🤷🏻‍♀️

SEmyarse · 18/05/2021 19:37

I don't see how the rest of the world can be accounted for.

OP posts:
Whitchurch · 18/05/2021 19:37

Oh - and why didn't you post this in the bloody covid board?

Crankley · 18/05/2021 19:37

Natural selection in action.

thehistorymum · 18/05/2021 19:38

@SEmyarse

So as far as I can tell people are happy to vaccinate so they don't catch it in the short term, and don't give it to others in the short term.

But then long term we'll just give boosters to the vulnerable, and most of us will have worn off immunity. so why not do that now?

The only possible reason would be if there's likely to be significantly better treatment in the future.

Which there could well be when scientists have time to research and develop further treatments. However, the immediacy concern is to save live and stop the spread.
Kittypillar · 18/05/2021 19:39

@SEmyarse

If we are only going to be giving boosters to the vulnerable long term, then what is the point in vaccinating everyone now?
So it doesn't run rampant and people don't die, jfc...

Not everyone who is vulnerable can have the vaccine. The more people who are vaccinated, the fewer opportunities it has to spread and mutate, potentially becoming far more manageable to protect people from in the future.

Pop your head out from the rabbit hole for a second - Covid isn't a picnic to catch and you also probably wouldn't want to pass it on to someone vulnerable unintentionally. If you can prevent that, even if it was just in the bloody short term as you seem to be convinced, WHY WOULDN'T YOU? Give your head a wobble.

HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 18/05/2021 19:39

Yes, cases are currently very low in some areas and the virus is spreading very slowly in the vaccinated age groups. Once cases are so low population wide, then it becomes like flu.

I'm not sure if this is entirely true, but some scientists said covid is less spreadable than flu. Just that flu cases are so low in the country that it doesn't matter. We do still have a flu season where people die from flu. Just not in the numbers seen from covid, because some people are vaccinated against flu.

HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 18/05/2021 19:40

Other parts of the world have lots of diseases we don't see in England.

AlmostSummer21 · 18/05/2021 19:40

I just typed a long response & MN ate it. Fuck sake

Bottom line

Do your bit. Go and have your injections

The stronger the U.K. is, the more we can help other countries.

x2boys · 18/05/2021 19:41

So here in Bolton Op our rate currently stands at 301/100,000 and they are working around the clock trying to vaccinate anybody who turns up even 16 year olds ,I'm no expert either ,but I'm rather glad at the moment that I'm fully vaccinated.

AlmostSummer21 · 18/05/2021 19:42

@SEmyarse

Yes, very low cases is a good objective. But do you really think this is possible?
Of course it's possible.
HandforthParishCouncilClerk · 18/05/2021 19:43

Are you drunk? This makes absolutely no sense, even by anti-vax standards Confused

Voomster953 · 18/05/2021 19:43

Enjoy getting your antibodies the natural way, OP. Hmm

Now pack in your wind-up and bore off.

SEmyarse · 18/05/2021 19:43

This is the bit `I struggle with. Why would we not have an India (or wherever) again and again.

OP posts:
AlmostSummer21 · 18/05/2021 19:44

@SEmyarse

If we are only going to be giving boosters to the vulnerable long term, then what is the point in vaccinating everyone now?
Honestly are you goading or stupid?

Or do you really need it explained yet again??

I'm happy to explain it to you yet again if you honestly don't understand, but I have no desire to waste my time doing so again if you're going to continue to ignore what people tell you

Susie477 · 18/05/2021 19:44

@Crankley

Natural selection in action.
Indeed.

Sometimes I wonder if it would be a good idea to bring back smallpox, just for the benefit of the anti-vaxxers.

SEmyarse · 18/05/2021 19:44

I'm not anti-vax. I just can't see how this can possibly work on a worldwide level.

OP posts:
Aqua55 · 18/05/2021 19:44

I get better phone reception now I've had the vax. Worth it for that alone.

pallisers · 18/05/2021 19:45

god, imagine if everyone had this hopeless attitude. No point in trying to eradicate smallpox because war and poverty. Forget eliminating polio because war and poverty. Don't bother educating people because war and poverty. Forget flu shots because war and poverty and also you'll just have to have another one next year so what's the point.

mainsfed · 18/05/2021 19:46

@SEmyarse

No, I'm not an expert No, I'm not advocating giving it to kids, I just meant theoretically. And yeah, to the person that asked me to define work, I'd love to know the objective too.
But your theory makes no sense. How does you not having your vaccine help super spread the virus to younger people (I assume you mean kids as all adults have had their jab by this summer?)

Can you clarify?

anon5678 · 18/05/2021 19:46

@SEmyarse

I'm not anti-vax. I just can't see how this can possibly work on a worldwide level.
But why lol. It works for all other flu strains
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