To think they should pause meeting inside

[LastOrdersMaura]

In the last person to be overly concerned about the virus but the SAGE minutes show that there is something to be concerned about.
I think the economy can't take anymore and I really feel for all the businesses who are gearing up for opening on Monday. My friends cafe hasn't opened since October last year so she missed all the Christmas trade and has no outside seating. Her customer base are mostly elderly so unlikely to come out for takeaway. It would likely bankrupt her to hold off opening any longer.

The mixing in people's houses seems the least destructive part to hold off on. I know a lot of people have been looking forward to it but prolonged contact in a small space seems to be a major factor in transmission.
I'm looking forward to seeing others for a drink in their houses but I can see how it can go wrong. Most people aren't able to go for a meal in a restaurant every night of the week. I could however go to a different friends house every day, even multiple friends houses! Then if that friend does the same, that's a lot of indoor mixing. We have small children so the likelihood of them SD'ing is unlikely. Then there's older siblings at school, working parents, nursery etc leading to an increase in transmission. I feel restaurants are quite safe in comparison.
Those who want to will mix indoors anyway but it might make some think twice or not accept as many invitations. It has no impact on the economy. Yes it will have an impact on mental health but I think we're screwed on that part anyway. Anxiety is through the roof!
I'm fully expecting people to tell me to fuck off but this is the most sensible decision that BJ could make in light of the new variant. I'm not a lockdown lover, frankly as I haven't had a lockdown due to working out of the house throughout. I just want this to be over, properly over, not just kicking the can down the road.

But people seemingly don't understand why we are at risk of another large wave. I don't understand why they don't understand, but seems a lot of people can't get their head round it.

It is truly baffling, I agree.

People seem to have lost the ability to grasp basic patterns, how x leads to y - eg what gatherings last Christmas would eventually reap - which are clear just by glancing out at the world itself, eg Italy last March, the US after Thanksgiving, etc, and India and other countries now, rather than burying one's head in the sand and bleating about one's entitlements.

Le grande sigh... Enjoy the third wave, I guess.

One year on I still don't get why folk don't get the fact that if hospitals are overwhelmed there is no treatment available for all the other non-covid acute hospital requirements. Like childbirth for instance in an extreme circumstance. We are in a much better position than ever before but very sadly we are not out of the woods yet. This is (hopefully) a once-in-a-century pandemic.

To those that would let it rip - what would be acceptable to you. Nightingales with basic field medicine and palliative care for those who are critical and if we have 1/2 a million with serious long covid ill for years after then what sort of NHS is even going to be available after all this shit is over.

It's shit and anyone that is enjoying this shit needs their head testing but it is what it is Covid doesn't give a shit for what we want or think it just does what it does sadly. It is vestigial life struggling to be born and trying to win like every other living thing on this planet.

@unwuthering I don't think people are burying their heads in the sand. I'm not. I have stuck to and supported the lockdown rules thoughout. I still think the changes need to happen. We have to suck it and see, It's pretty insensitive to say people are "bleating", you don't know what people may be going through.

I also don't think you can compare now to Christmas, thanksgiving etc. The situation is different.

@vera99 are people saying we should let it rip? I don't think that's the general tone of the thread?

The situation is different.

Yes, the new variant is much more worrying.

@unwuthering

The situation is different.

Yes, the new variant is much more worrying.

In which ways is it more worrying (that is not me trying to be snarky, it is a genuine question!) we know nothing for certain yet about transmissibility, do we? The SAGE minutes make that clear, I thought.

There is a tone from some of "we have had enough some let that that will happen happen , enough of SAGE blah blah, scariants , some are loving this". Well the logical conclusion for action if that is your mindset is let it rip. Combined with the pathological inability of Johnson to take timely action when the writing is on the wall.

I think we can all agree that this is fucking shit and there are only least worse options unless you are part of the MN Banana Bread Cult which I must give a try sometime (the bread that is not the cult).

Rant over it is raining outside...again...

@vera99

One year on I still don't get why folk don't get the fact that if hospitals are overwhelmed there is no treatment available for all the other non-covid acute hospital requirements. Like childbirth for instance in an extreme circumstance. We are in a much better position than ever before but very sadly we are not out of the woods yet. This is (hopefully) a once-in-a-century pandemic.

To those that would let it rip - what would be acceptable to you. Nightingales with basic field medicine and palliative care for those who are critical and if we have 1/2 a million with serious long covid ill for years after then what sort of NHS is even going to be available after all this shit is over.

It's shit and anyone that is enjoying this shit needs their head testing but it is what it is Covid doesn't give a shit for what we want or think it just does what it does sadly. It is vestigial life struggling to be born and trying to win like every other living thing on this planet.

People do understand that if hospitals are overwhelmed it would be a disaster, that’s why there has been such high compliance for lockdowns for more than a year.

But when we can see that the hospitals are coping fine and that they are nowhere near being overwhelmed, then it’s hard to understand why others are so keen to keep the restrictions going. The vast majority of people that were at risk of being hospitalised are now vaccinated. What’s the point of us all taking our chances with the vaccines if it leads to no benefit?

We were told that lockdown was to protect the NHS, but it doesn’t need protecting now. If we get into a position where it does need protection again, then restrictions can be reinstated.

@BogRollBOGOF

Meeting inside has pretty much been baned continuously in Leicester and several northern areas for 14m. It clearly worked

Might as well remove speed limits too then

@vera99 I am definitely not in the let it rip camp. I am in the let's open up carefully and cautiously , but be prepared to backtrack sharpish if needed camp.

Raining here too.

Yes, they should pause meeting inside.

That is the main area of transmission in non-lockdown times.

Local school (in leafy shires) currently has a whole year group at home for 10 days due to the Indian variant.

They are no longer just identifying close contacts and sending them home (or the proposed keeping everyone in school and testing them daily).

If it is the Indian variant it is right back to square one with the whole year group sent home all over again.

Is this what you want for your DC education?

This is being very underreported because the government have totally screwed up the potential end of restrictions with incompetent border control and lack of quarantine and putting trade deals above public health.

I agree with you, op. The new variant will spread and we don’t know if the vaccine offers protection. I know life needs to her t back to normality but holding off for on indoor meetings is the only sensible option for now.

I'm inside small rooms with no ventilation with 5 or 6 different classes of between 20 and 30 children 5 days a week. Why has that ok but I've not been allowed to go inside a restaurant?

I'm not for lockdown to infinity far from it, but so far the readout from the Indian variant from those whose job it is to know what it means is not looking good. Hopefully, surge testing/surge vaccination in the main areas of the new outbreak can get a lid on it .

One lesson that ought to have been learnt by our leaders now is if you want to win in a pandemic of this nature you hit any outbreaks hard and fast or pay a much heavier price later. Keeping outdoors for another couple of weeks if what every scientist and his dog is starting to virtually scream, that and accelerate vaxing to the max could make a big difference to the trajectory of would could be a much bigger third wave.

Apologies if I'm coming over preachy and ranting I spent time in the trenches on the Government Fear megathreads - still scarred by the experience. Time to look at that Banana Bread recipe and get cooking ...

I'm angry as a far better response than once again restricting our freedoms would have been to stop the blinking flights from India coming in as soon as the issue was known.

I'm so upset at the thought of our big Lake District family holiday at the end of June cancelled again. I know it's only a stupid holiday but it has been postponed 3 times already and if we don't go then it will need to be next Easter or Summer holidays so more than the "let's do this for a few more weeks" nonsense.

I don't know what the answer is, but I'd rather like the government to focus on the actual issue at the time rather than the general populace too late.

@vera99

Apologies if I'm coming over preachy and ranting I spent time in the trenches on the Government Fear megathreads - still scarred by the experience. Time to look at that Banana Bread recipe and get cooking ...

Hahaha - I spent time there too, gave up in the end. They are still going on about Bill Gates.

Johnson fucks up everything he touches. Theresa May must be fuming she would have made a far far better job of handling the detail in a timely manner and listening to advice rather than spending time canoodling with his young mistress.

Is there actually any evidence that this strain is more deadly or affects younger people?

We aren't India. Vulnerable people have been vaccinated. So what if there are a lot of cases? (There aren't, just now) It only matters if it makes people seriously ill. If you have been vaccinated you aren't going to be ill, and if you are in a group that hasn't been vaccinated you are unlikely to be ill.

If we never open up, we'll never know if vaccines actually work. Covid isn't going to go away, we need to build long term resilience.

@Oblomov21

No lavender. I'm only going on what many doctors have said in the news, that we don't need to overreact to every new variant.

We aren't. There have been other variants, in fact two other Indian variants. The scientists have said this one is a VoC (variant of concern).

Like the Kent one and look where that got us in Jan, after trying to pretend it wouldn't cause a problem.

We cannot keep making the same mistake.

The greatest transmission is in homes. Why encourage mixing in homes by removing the restrictions.

Obvious some people will still do it, but many would not.

Saying 'it's safe, go ahead' (because they're too wet to pause the roadmap despite them saying data not dates) it's utterly ridiculous.

He needs to listen to the scientists, not play to the audience.

I do understand people are looking forward to seeing others & especially the 3 year okd who had the operation 🍫💐 but adults need to understand that pausing meeting in homes, masks in schools etc is short term pain for long term gain. We don't want to be back in January.

Vaccines are fantastic, but we aren't at a high enough level of uptake/vaccination/+3 weeks. YET

I understand the sentiments behind OP's post but it's illogical to say restaurants and businesses should open tomorrow for inside dining but we should hold off meeting people in the privacy of our own homes for a bit longer. We're booked into a local restaurant to meet another household for dinner as per the rules on Friday night. Assuming there will be other diners there, we'll be far more exposed than we would if that other household just came to ours for dinner! And no, we won't be cancelling because we can't bloody wait to go out out with our friends.

I agree OP. I hate this continuing cycle of opening up, increased transmission, deaths and lockdown. We are so close to getting the vaccine programme rolled out and breaking this cycle. I would much rather delay opening up to avoid more lockdowns.

Sadly people don't learn and fail to understand exponential growth. The increased tranmissability of the Indian variant is scary. Cases are doubling every week. There are still enough unvaccinated people to cause a big spike in deaths.

I would delay the next stage a couple of weeks until we know more about how it spreads.

@majesticallyawkward

I think the panic over the Indian variant is forgetting that their heath care system and probably living conditions has played a major part in the devastation we are seeing. You can't just assume that the same will happen in the UK because it's an entirely different situation, I strongly believe the effects of not opening up again would be far worse here.

The scientists are not stupid. They're looking on the virus variant NOT what's happening in India.

We don't want to be back in January, but the thing is we aren't in January, we're in May, and hospitals are never as full in summer! Plus everyone who is vulnerable has been vaccinated. It isn't January, we have moved forward and we can't be continually trapped in lockdown loops. Let us have a normal summer. Yes some people will get ill. Some people will die. We can't prevent every death, and a hell of a lot of people will be ill and die from depression and other illnesses if we carry on like this.

Yes some people will get ill. Some people will die.

So cavalier!