So angry at the Government this evening

[Moonme]

I’m SO mad. I haven’t been on this board for months and I was feeling really optimistic about life feeling like it was returning to normal.
It is criminal that they have let this variant in. It’s literally ground hog day. Playing politics with public health to do trade deals (because of bloody Brexit) with India.
I know there is hope that the vaccines will do there jobs but we shouldn’t be in this position. This wasn’t inevitable. Arggh so cross

I know two people who cant and they dont expect you to. They are fucking fed up with it being assumed that they do expect this and they are also fed up with being used for emotional blackmail“

Emotional blackmail? What do you mean by that, MercyBooth?

The government strategy has been baffling on this one:

• not being worried enough about the Indian variants even though it was self-evident there was a high risk.

• pursuing policies of lockdown but always too little too late, meaning they had to be more severe and longer lasting. Exponential increases mean rapid action makes a big difference.

• allowing people to travel freely with no consequences. The people going abroad against the rules should be tracked down and asked to provide evidence of their legitimate reasons for travelling. And if they can't provide it, be given substantial fines as a deterrent.

Out of interest, I know people in Bolton area who have been vaccinated and then still caught this and got ill with it.

I've been tolerant of Bojo till now, but am really angry about this one. It was so obvious even at the time. They've massively ballsed up.

Yep they are so worried about the variant they are axing staff.
www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-test-trace-serco-staff-b1845688.html

The people you know in the Bolton area, I assume you don't know if it definitely was the Indian variant they caught rather than the Kent etc? Were they vaccinated with both doses or just the one?

Also which vaccine?

I heard a rep from the travel industry on the radio yesterday. Bleating about the need to open up travel again otherwise they will need more support, collapse of the industry, blah blah blah. I realise the industry is very badly affected but what planet are these people on, advocating opening up the borders when we’re so much in the dark about foreign variants and their effects.

@MercyBooth. I agree with you. The NHS spokesman in January made my blood boil at the time, seemingly branding Covid patients as irresponsible. It made me even angrier in February when my clinically vulnerable husband went into hospital for a minor, but necessary op, after 12 months of successful shielding. He tested positive on a LFT on admission and was placed straight on a Covid ward, even though the protocol was for patients to be placed in isolation to await confirmation on a PCR test. He protested at the time that he hadn’t moved from the house for over 12 months and no one else in the household tested positive, but it didn’t make any difference. The two follow up PCR tests were negative - we only found this out because he had the NHS app on his phone and they sent the results there, the hospital didn’t say a word. He came home, developed Covid and passed it to me and we were both really ill. As far as I’m concerned that LFT was a false positive and the reason we contracted Covid was because of NHS negligence. Same thing happened to my neighbour - her husband went in overnight for a procedure, tested LFT positive, placed in a Covid ward, PCR negative - died 10 days later. How many others have been put at risk by incompetence and how hypocritical to brand the public as irresponsible for flouting the rules, when the NHS aren’t following their own bloody protocols.

if the vaccine continues keeping bad cases/deaths down, does it really matter that much if more people catch it..when its basically a cold, or no symptoms at all for the vast vast majority now. Its different to when it was the younger people 'safe' while millions were at risk of bad infection, but with the vaccine, those millions at higher risk seem 'safe' too..

Virus mutations happen when people catch it and spread it.
If enough people catch it, there is a possibility that it will continue to mutate, and this is regardless of how seriously people are affected. Actually, it's more likely to spread if symptoms are very mild because it won't keep people from going about their daily lives and contact with others.
That is just how viruses are - they spread, and as they spread they mutate.
If the virus undergoes enough mutations, it is possible that a mutation will emerge which is able to invade regardless of immunisation status of the individual. We will then begin again.

What do you want? Closed borders for the U.K.?

@MarshaBradyo
Just no favoured nation travel status for countries the UK is trying to strike trade deals with.

It is surely really obvious why Pakistan travel was forbidden while India travel was left to go ahead?

I heard a rep from the travel industry on the radio yesterday. Bleating about the need to open up travel again otherwise they will need more support, collapse of the industry, blah blah blah. I realise the industry is very badly affected but what planet are these people on, advocating opening up the borders when we’re so much in the dark about foreign variants and their effects

Yes what planet are these people on, worrying about their jobs

“- allowing people to travel freely with no consequences. The people going abroad against the rules should be tracked down and asked to provide evidence of their legitimate reasons for travelling. And if they can't provide it, be given substantial fines as a deterrent.“

Absolutely agree with this, it would set a clear message going forward. I feel sorry for those who had genuine reasons to travel as they are grouped in with those who stuck two fingers up to the government (and us who were patiently sticking to the rules).

I’m sorry but I really struggle to believe that that many people had dying close relatives. And attending a wedding should absolutely not have been a good enough reason to travel...

@mathanxiety

What do you want? Closed borders for the U.K.?

@MarshaBradyo
Just no favoured nation travel status for countries the UK is trying to strike trade deals with.

It is surely really obvious why Pakistan travel was forbidden while India travel was left to go ahead?

1. Enforced hotel quarantine brought in much sooner. (And no notice given to get home to avoid it as I’m pretty certain that is what caused the spread, like those fleeing London at Christmas).

1. For the government to come up with some way of ensuring people quarantine at home properly - as quite obviously they haven’t been or it would not have been able to spread.

1. For the government to stop this ridiculous rule that people who’ve travelled from amber countries can quarantine in their own home (or relatives home) while the household continue their daily lives eg work and school, as this makes a mockery of the need to quarantine.

1. For the government to force airlines to not allow anyone who has not got the correct documentation (eg negative test result, quarantine hotel booking, evidence of reason for travel etc) to board the plane. Like if they haven’t got a passport. It’s too late when they arrive here pleading ignorance or saying they didn’t know or can’t afford it.

1. Make people pay up front for quarantine hotel- I keep hearing people who have not and we know who will end up footing the bill. If people can afford to travel abroad and choose to do it in a pandemic then they have to be prepared and have funds available to do this if needed.

All sensible ideas too ^^

Unfortunately, political considerations have trumped sense right from the start of all of this.

@Changednameforthispost11

"For the government to force airlines to not allow anyone who has not got the correct documentation (eg negative test result, quarantine hotel booking, evidence of reason for travel etc) to board the plane. Like if they haven’t got a passport. It’s too late when they arrive here pleading ignorance or saying they didn’t know or can’t afford it.

To some extent that already happens.

For quite some time some/all? airlines have been demanding sight of a neg test result and in many cases sight of the Passenger Locator Form, which contains some of the info you are asking for, before allowing boarding a flight to the UK..

And thinking about the detail I'm not sure how airline check-in staff/gate staff are supposed to verify exactly why somebody is travelling since there's no international standard document to prove somebody went to a wedding or has been helping an ill relative - so what documentation are the airline staff meant to look for? There are also limits to what information airline staff can/can't demand from their paying customers..they're not working for Conair.

The best people to delve into that sort of detail is "Border Force" so maybe the question needs to be asked as to whether they are properly resourced and organised at the UK end?

The best people to delve into that sort of detail is "Border Force" so maybe the question needs to be asked as to whether they are properly resourced and organised at the UK end?

Isn't the checking at the UK end causing the 6 to 8 hour delays, where people from safe countries then mix with those supposed to be quarantining?
Its a great pity the media don't question Bojo on his decisions quite as thoroughly as they do Labour on a re shuffle.

Isn't the checking at the UK end causing the 6 to 8 hour delays, where people from safe countries then mix with those supposed to be quarantining?

At times yes, hence my point about whether Border and the associated facilities is properly resourced

..and IMHO the solution is not to offload all responsibility and the cost of checking onto airline staff/subcontractors..

It is UK border control at Heathrow etc who are taking the 6 houyrs to get people through . They just need more staff. Instead they pack people close together in a petri dish in effect for all kinds of infections for 6 hours. It should not be that hard to train a load of unemployed graduates to check passports, covid test results, immigration status and have 10x the numbers on the desks at busy times.

Yes I agree it is the responsibility of the border force not the airline staff, but surely there could be some measures put in place before travel to speed things up and stop people arriving here that shouldn’t have travelled.

Maybe people should have to apply for special permission to travel (at times when travel is illegal) and get given a qr code by the border force when all of the forms were completed which needs to be scanned by the airlines or something similar.

I work in inbound travel. My industry, and my career, has been decimated. I'm furious that India wasn't put on the red list earlier and that people may have failed to quarantine. I know from experience that checks are practically non-existent.

That being said, I do think we should severely restrict travel at the moment. I know of people planning holidays to Amber countries such as Spain and Greece who have no intention of quarantining on return. They don't believe they'll be checked up on, and say they'll just pay the fine if caught.

I'd rather get covid under control and if that means I have to do something else to earn money until we can travel again and people will visit us again, then I will.

We certainly need data on if the new variants kill people who have had the existing vaccines.

To be fair to the Gov't, I think a couple of points need to be made;
IF..... India was on the red list and travel direct to here from there was banned, people would be shouting ''Racism!!' Also, after the flight ban was introduced, people were still coming back via other countries not on the list (eg Turkey) and not going into quarantine. I think any blame for this should be on those that came into the country from India in the last 2 - 3 weeks, however they got here.
Be honest with yourself.... if you were out there and wanted/needed to get home here; would you make 2 or 3 flights to circumnavigate the rules, as well as not bothering to hide away in a hotel for10 days?

The danger with ideas such as closing e.g. the UK airline industry down is that once you shut them down there is a very real danger there won't be those jobs in the UK to come back to when travel starts again, hence many think it's better that the industry limps along, in the airlines case carrying those with demonstrated legitimate need to travel/freight.

Maybe people should have to apply for special permission to travel (at times when travel is illegal) and get given a qr code by the border force when all of the forms were completed which needs to be scanned by the airlines or something similar.

The underlying problem is the evasion of precautions and downright lying that has gone on. A government issued permit sounds draconian and I don't see how it would work with foreign residents coming to the UK but sad to say if some people can't be trusted maybe something like it is needed it if helps protect the country and perhaps helps safeguards jobs.

@Xenia

It is UK border control at Heathrow etc who are taking the 6 houyrs to get people through . They just need more staff. Instead they pack people close together in a petri dish in effect for all kinds of infections for 6 hours. It should not be that hard to train a load of unemployed graduates to check passports, covid test results, immigration status and have 10x the numbers on the desks at busy times.

The border checks have been scandalous. Packing people together for hours so any infection spreads. What is going on? Are they making some stupid point at border control? Why is it so badly managed?

What is going on? Are they making some stupid point at border control? Why is it so badly managed?

It has been badly managed for at least the 12/13 years I've been an immigrant here. Classic UKBA behaviour. I recently applied for citizenship - cost around £2,000 - and the borstal where you're interviewed doesn't even extend the courtesy of chairs to sit on during the two hour process. We are the great and glorious UK, and you, visitor, don't matter at all beyond your ability to get your chequebook out on demand. Queue for six hours, get infected, lick one another for all we care.

How did covid especially get into UK back in February 2020?

Was it imports straight from the hotspots (China & northern Italy).

No, not from there. It was import from an extreme lowspot (Singapore) & a likely low spot (French Alps).

Have we learnt nothing in 15 months? Identifying red list countries isn't all that useful.