2nd AZ Vaccine or start again?

[user77hjjy]

I'm due to have my 2nd dose later on today.

I'm 24.

I don't know whether I should start again with a different vaccine.

I can’t see how it is safer to basically make yourself part of an unfinished clinical trial by having different vaccines than to have a second dose of the same one.

And whatever PP upthread was told by the anonymous “two medics”, the only data released from the trial so far is that mixing vaccines tends to cause worse side effects, which given your experience with your first dose might be something to take into account. I would have thought it would be a while before they have enough data to know whether doses of two different vaccines are more efficacious than two of the same (although if Canada is about to start a large scale experiment on their population doing just that I guess they’ll know soon enough).

Have the 2nd
Stop moaning

I had first dose AZ . Could not move out of bed. Legs heavy like a tree trunk. Not having 2nd dose. Doc giving me something else later like Moderna. But I did have history of blood clots in my 20s. Its rubbish saying if you dont have the same you get nothing else. Everyone forgotten about consent then...

Why are you so desperate to try and look clever when in fact you are just being a bit of a dick. ?

You know very well what people were talking about when they asked what your 'under lying issues' were.

'Issues' is a generalised term that can be used for illness/disability / social concerns .. therefore when you say you have 'underlying illness' and are asked what your underlying issues are you have 2 sensible replies - To state what the illness /disability is or to decline to say as you don't wish to disclose.

Your replies to this 'issue' show to me that you are actually more interested in point scoring against other posters than the actual topic.

So, I’m the lady who had mixed doses. The day after I had it it was in the news that the side effects were worse. Not in my experience. The first Astra was in bed shivering for two days. The second dose was Pfizer. No side effects at all

Op The Green Book, last updated 7th May 2021 is your friend. See page 16

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/984310/Greenbookkchapter14aa7May2021.pdf

Interchanging different vaccines for first and second dose is not commonplace at all.
I am a vaccinator and this simply doesn't happen. If you have been told this is possible, I think you have been given incorrect advice. Unless you are on the trial good luck though. Please get your second dose if you can x

@user77hjjy do whatever you want.

Sorry that sounded sarcastic - do what you think is best is probably a better way of putting it.

@Gobbldegook

So, I’m the lady who had mixed doses. The day after I had it it was in the news that the side effects were worse. Not in my experience. The first Astra was in bed shivering for two days. The second dose was Pfizer. No side effects at all

They haven't told the trial groups what they had as their second dose yet, at least in UK trials. The reason for that is the trial is still ongoing. It's common to get no side effects from second dose AZ, so you could have had either.

Interchanging different vaccines for first and second dose is not commonplace at all
I am a vaccinator and this simply doesn't happen. If you have been told this is possible, I think you have been given incorrect advice.

As the human body can only take a maximum of two AZ shots, there is no alternative but to take an alternative for the boosters se will have to take for years to come. This is already common knowledge.

Everybody injected with AZ will have a different vaccine booster in six to twelve months time.

Everybody injected with AZ will have a different vaccine booster in six to twelve months time.

Yes we know. Once the trials are completed and the results known. Which I believe is June or July. Then a few weeks for MHRA to approve and we'll be ready for boosters of a different type for the Autumn onwards.

@pinkmagnolias

Interchanging different vaccines for first and second dose is not commonplace at all I am a vaccinator and this simply doesn't happen. If you have been told this is possible, I think you have been given incorrect advice.

As the human body can only take a maximum of two AZ shots, there is no alternative but to take an alternative for the boosters se will have to take for years to come. This is already common knowledge.

Everybody injected with AZ will have a different vaccine booster in six to twelve months time.

As far as I'm aware, that is an old assumption based on human adenovirus vectors assumptions. The trials didn't show that: www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-01179-4 "Antibodies against the ChAdOx1 vector are induced by the first vaccination but do not prevent boosting and are not further increased by the second vaccination with either a 4-week or 8-week interval. These observations are also important for further development of viral vectors in general, particularly as multiple vaccines are being developed that use the same viral vectors as those in development for SARS-CoV-2 vaccines, including Ad26, Ad5 and ChAdOx1."

and are not further increased by the second vaccination with either a 4-week or 8-week interval.

What does this mean - there is no advantage to a second vaccine???

Once the trials are completed and the results known

Regardless of trials, there isn’t any other option is there?

I think people are mixing up the trials with what is the current recommendations and legislations. I stand by my comments below, backed up by The Green Book.
Unless you are on a trial, mixing vaccines is simply not done, and is not commonplace.

This may of course change when the data starts coming in re trials, but bottom line, you cannot phone a vaccine centre, doctor or such and request a different vaccine to your first. That's not happening

current recommendations and legislations

The current recommendations and legislations depend on availability primarily.

As AZ can't be given to a person more than two times, vaccine boosters WILL have to be mixed. There is no other option.

IMO giving AZ to someone under 40 a second time while others of the same age do not have to take the risk even once is beyond reason, especially when they first took AZ without being in a position to fully calculate the risks v benefits. If a person chooses to have it knowingly that is a different matter entirely.

People need to understand that supply of the mRNA vaccines is very tight. If you demand Pfizer or Moderna for your second dose after AZ, despite the odds being so much lower for the second dose, you are potentially putting another under 40 at risk later down the line who might have to take AZ as a first dose (higher risk).

If you demand Pfizer or Moderna for your second dose after AZ, despite the odds being so much lower for the second dose

We don't have enough evidence that the risks are lower. There is not enough data for second dozes available.

you are potentially putting another under 40 at risk later down the line who might have to take AZ as a first dose (higher risk).

So instead someone else can take that risk on for a second time instead? No. No No.

*dose!!!

7.5 million second doses have been given. That’s plenty of data. Many of them ECV and CV so not all over 50.

No it isn't enough data. Not when the UK didn't disclose any issues with AZ until Denmark and other countries created a storm about it.

People seem angry at those people in areas with rapid spread of the Indian variant who have been eligible for the vaccination but not had them, because it creates pockets of lower levels of immunity where these variants can spread and potentially fuck up the reopening timelines for everyone else.

Yet see absolutely nothing wrong with refusing AZ second doses, despite the fact that this may also lead to patchy coverage that has the potential to fuck up reopening for everyone else. Hypocrisy.

@pinkmagnolias

No it isn't enough data. Not when the UK didn't disclose any issues with AZ until Denmark and other countries created a storm about it.

Did you read the Norway and Denmark full report? They had to explain there were only 18 deaths following vaccine instead of an expected 44 deaths from clots for that size of population. Science isn't always neat and tidy with its good and bad events, events also cluster in odd ways that can mean seeing lots or none for rare events.

Yet see absolutely nothing wrong with refusing AZ second doses, despite the fact that this may also lead to patchy coverage that has the potential to fuck up reopening for everyone else

Well then let AZ be given to other 40 year olds! Why would someone take a (now) known risk for a vaccine that others aren't being offered for because it is not suitable for their age group.

People who have already taken one AZ are not anti vax or unwilling to be vaccinated at all yet want herd immunity. The take one for the team attitude is fine when its someone else taking all the risks.

there were only 18 deaths

If you bought a tumble dryer that went on fire and burned down eighteen houses, would you say to everyone else, its fine - keep using it - it only happened eighteen times? Or would you say it should be recalled and stopped?