School pupils vaccinated from September

[Totalbeach]

This is in lots of papers today. Such as:

www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/19274021.secondary-school-pupils-set-get-covid-jab-september/

And:

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/02/nhs-england-draws-up-plan-to-give-covid-jabs-to-children-12-and-over

What’s your reaction?

Mine is that I 100% won’t be allowing my children to be vaccinated.

In the whole pandemic so far, 12 children under 15 have died in the U.K. That increases to 32 in the under 20s. The mortality rate is vanishingly tiny. A huge percentage of kids don’t even get symptoms at all.

The government has assured us till they are blue in the face that schools are safe and that children don’t spread it so it will be interesting to see what kind of enormous gaslighting they attempt to pull off to persuade parents they now need to vaccinate their kids.

The long term effects of the vaccines are totally unknown and recent events with AZ have proved rather horribly that even after a vaccine is rolled out, serious effects can come to light. Including events that disproportionately affect certain age groups.

I’m fully vaccinated (including first Covid vaccine) as are my kids but there is no way I’d let them be vaccinated in September. With any of the vaccines.

@freeingNora

No, you are confused about the vaccine. It is widely accepted that the vaccine decreases both the chance of contracting covid and of passing it on. I don't understand why this theory that it only reduces the chance of severe disease persists.

Ours will be having it. The more that have it the less chance it has to mutate. You aren't just protecting the vulnerable (although this is reason enough!).

I'm genuinely shocked at how many people will be getting this vaccine for their kids. Each to their own but I do marvel at how differently people think about these things.

Personally, no I will not be having my kids vaccinated.

I'm genuinely shocked at the amount of parents on here who would take away their child's choice in this decision due to their own anxieties and personal views.

@jumpbounce I think that the Gillick principle would be highly unlikely to apply to new vaccines on emergency licenses. There is no way a child of 12 could be considered to be making an informed choice when data is still coming in, long term effects are totally unknown, the risk to children is low (risk v benefit) and the child has been pressured into it.

@jumpbounce

I'm genuinely shocked at the amount of parents on here who would take away their child's choice in this decision due to their own anxieties and personal views.

Well mine are too young (yet - they'll be after them too no doubt) but a parent is well within their rights to make decisions for their children based on their own personal views and understanding of the risks.

I've taken away their choice with every vaccine they've ever had, should I have waited until they were old enough to decide to have the MMR

[quote btwwhichonespink]@jumpbounce I think that the Gillick principle would be highly unlikely to apply to new vaccines on emergency licenses. There is no way a child of 12 could be considered to be making an informed choice when data is still coming in, long term effects are totally unknown, the risk to children is low (risk v benefit) and the child has been pressured into it.[/quote]
It happened with the HPV vaccine. It was newly out whenever I received it and I've mentioned above a friend who was able to get it against her parents wishes.
No child will be pressured into it, it would be their decision, however it seems acceptable for parents to pressure their children into not having it?

@EveryFlightBeginsWithAFall

I've taken away their choice with every vaccine they've ever had, should I have waited until they were old enough to decide to have the MMR

Well I don't know about your baby but most wouldn't be considered Gillick competent not comparable to a teenager in anyway.

@jumpbounce shocking, to be honest re HPV. I don't agree with that at all.

Advice on consent for HPV given to children in year 8 so the same as the youngest age bracket who will be offered the covid vaccination.

@freeingNora

My children won't be having it

There seems to be some confusion about the vaccines, they don't stop you getting covid they just help you manage the symptoms with your immune response so it doesn't kill you. It's more likely that a fully vaccinated asymptomatic person will burst the bubble or bring the infection into school through assumed immunity.

You’re wrong. Stop peddling misinformation.

[quote btwwhichonespink]@jumpbounce shocking, to be honest re HPV. I don't agree with that at all.[/quote]
I for one am very glad that young people have the right to consent for medical decisions on their own behalf.

@jumpbounce

I'm genuinely shocked at the amount of parents on here who would take away their child's choice in this decision due to their own anxieties and personal views.

Not in our case, they've seen the impact of covid Are you sure you can say the same?

My older children will make the choice for themselves. I'll consent to them having the option, but it'll be up to them. I don't have a strong opinion either way.

I do suspect it will be in schools. Some areas don't even do teen vaccines at the GPs anymore, if you miss them at school you have to do a catch-up clinic. It's a real pain in the ass, but that's how things have shifted.

But since EVERY ADULT who wants it should be vaccinated by September, who are we vaccinating them to protect?

Those who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons is usually the main group, that no vaccine is 100% so will be covering those that the vaccine didn't protect and to try to prevent further mutation is another, and that should isn't very iron clad. I know in my area there has already been a few issues with little things like people who don't update their phone details to GPs (I think there may be an over-reliance on the text invitation to the booking system with certain age groups).

@jumpbounce 16, I could accept even if I didn't agree with it. 18 would be better. But not 12/13/14. they generally aren't competent at that age to truly understand the risks vs. benefits, and are also more likely to feel they have to do it if everyone else it, or if the nurse asks them directly. What 12 year old girl would say no to a nurse?

I'm not talking about teenagers , I'm talking about if they decide to vaccinate younger children

How about the flu vacc then ? Or is it just teens you think should get a choice ? Do you think they're going to hold teens down and inject them against their will? What do you think happened in the days of the TB vaccine that we all had as teens

My dd will have the vaccine as soon as it is offered to her.

She is a few weeks off 16, and perfectly capable of making her own decision on this. She has looked at the facts, and she is very clear that she would like to have the jab. I will respect her choice.

I have a child who undergoes medical procedures on a regular basis. They aren't old enough to consent on their own behalf yet however when they are of course I won't project my anxieties onto their decision. The same way I don't project my anxieties about procedures onto them today. We know many families with children who have medical conditions and the medical professionals always involve the older children in the decision making.
And yes my children have seen the impact of covid having been on the shielding list and I myself have lost a young healthy friend with 5 young children to the horrible illness.

@Wildswim

I definitely won't be letting my DC have the vaccine.

It's actually in breach of the Nuremberg code as children cannot consent to an experimental medical procedure and that is exactly what this is. It's still in trial stage and will be until 2023.

I respect your right to choose not to vaccinate your child

However bringing up the Nuremberg code is very distasteful. It came about because Nazi experiments torturing and abusing Jewish people. Hardly a comparison with a vaccine invented to save lifes. That nobody is forced to have.

Do you wear a yellow star and go on protests? That is the level you just went too. Fair enough don't vaccinate but don't argue your case in that way please.

[quote btwwhichonespink]@jumpbounce 16, I could accept even if I didn't agree with it. 18 would be better. But not 12/13/14. they generally aren't competent at that age to truly understand the risks vs. benefits, and are also more likely to feel they have to do it if everyone else it, or if the nurse asks them directly. What 12 year old girl would say no to a nurse?[/quote]
Children are more competent than people give them credit for.

@EveryFlightBeginsWithAFall

I'm not talking about teenagers , I'm talking about if they decide to vaccinate younger children

How about the flu vacc then ? Or is it just teens you think should get a choice ? Do you think they're going to hold teens down and inject them against their will? What do you think happened in the days of the TB vaccine that we all had as teens

Younger children are not Gillick competent therefore it will be the parents decision ultimately. However its a mute point at the moment because this vaccine and discussion is for 12-18 year olds most of whom will be competent.

Maybe. I thought I knew it all when I was a teenager. In reality I was still clueless into my 20s.

Vaccines appear to be the only area where the state tries to bypass the parent for consent. They wouldn't take my kid on a trip to London without my permission, so how can they give them a medical treatment that could (in extremely rare cases I acknowledge) mame them for life? What if the parent knows something about the medical history that the child does not?

Absolute madness. Mine certainly won’t be getting it. I’m not even getting it. I’m in my 40s and pretty healthy.

@btwwhichonespink

Maybe. I thought I knew it all when I was a teenager. In reality I was still clueless into my 20s.

Vaccines appear to be the only area where the state tries to bypass the parent for consent. They wouldn't take my kid on a trip to London without my permission, so how can they give them a medical treatment that could (in extremely rare cases I acknowledge) mame them for life? What if the parent knows something about the medical history that the child does not?

I'm presuming the parent will them declare that on the consent form with their refusal which then when the child decides they want to have it it will be known that actually there is a medical reason for them not to be vaccinated. But honestly I don't actually know for sure in that situation other than if there was any medical reason for them not to have the vaccine allergies or any other reason it would also be in their medical history.