School pupils vaccinated from September

[Totalbeach]

This is in lots of papers today. Such as:

www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/19274021.secondary-school-pupils-set-get-covid-jab-september/

And:

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/02/nhs-england-draws-up-plan-to-give-covid-jabs-to-children-12-and-over

What’s your reaction?

Mine is that I 100% won’t be allowing my children to be vaccinated.

In the whole pandemic so far, 12 children under 15 have died in the U.K. That increases to 32 in the under 20s. The mortality rate is vanishingly tiny. A huge percentage of kids don’t even get symptoms at all.

The government has assured us till they are blue in the face that schools are safe and that children don’t spread it so it will be interesting to see what kind of enormous gaslighting they attempt to pull off to persuade parents they now need to vaccinate their kids.

The long term effects of the vaccines are totally unknown and recent events with AZ have proved rather horribly that even after a vaccine is rolled out, serious effects can come to light. Including events that disproportionately affect certain age groups.

I’m fully vaccinated (including first Covid vaccine) as are my kids but there is no way I’d let them be vaccinated in September. With any of the vaccines.

@Nappyvalley15

It is not generally considered to be ethical to ask children to take risks to protect adults.

One of the main reasons the chicken pox vaccine has not been included in the childhood vaccine programme has been to protect adults.

We currently have Covid in our house, brought home from school, (someone parent had travelled for some reason, who knows whether they then followed quarantine rules) now cluster/outbreak within school community, three out of four of my children have been really poorly, all are under 13 and have lost sense taste and smell, had high temps, croaky voices, cough and sore throats, if i can protect them in any way from going through it again I would do anything, it’s not to be messed about with, my children can’t taste anything and no one can tell me when that will resolve. I have had one vaccine due to an underlying condition (mild), am in bed with this virus and usually very active and healthy, (daily excercise and three/four times a week HIIT) don’t drink or smoke and bmi 23. I’m only 41. All the above
Could have been avoided if the family it originated from had followed the rules better, everywhere else locally has very low cases, the vaccine program is amazing but like previous posters have said, not safe until everyone’s vaccinated including children both doses and precautions need to be still taken, I have followed all guidelines throughout and will continue but had no chance once my kids got it 😕

@Nappyvalley15

It is not generally considered to be ethical to ask children to take risks to protect adults.

Is it unethical to offer competent children a vaccine that will likely protect both themselves and their future emotional and financial stability by also protecting their parents?

Exactly borntobequiet, if my kids had been vaccinated already then I would not now be stuck in bed unable to care for them as I wish, hopefully my half dose vaccine will do its job and get me out of bed sooner than later but as soon as it’s offered mine will be getting it and I hope many many take it up in order to protect the younger ones that aren’t old enough to yet be offered it, my gorgeous little 6yr old son has been knocked of his feet by this virus, not one of us are elderly, obese or cev, vaccines are really the only way out of this awful situation, that includes for children

@AuntMarilla

I know people have said 'vulnerable children' and I get that but there's almost no evidence that vulnerable children are actually at risk.

So do you think the Drs who advised ds to shield, did so on a whim?

No, they did so from a point of view of knowing very little about this novel disease and utmost caution, as you’d hope and expect. However, much of the shielding for children was later removed when it became more and more clear that this disease interacts with children’s immune systems in a far less serious way than we had been seeing in adults. Children were not put into barrels to shield - they had family members who worked and shopped (even if you personally didn’t) and some who went to school. And of course many, many vulnerable children were in hospital and some in hospice care. The 12 children under 15 who sadly died includes all vulnerable children who caught Covid. It’s a very low number. That’s why there’s almost no evidence that vulnerable children are at risk, thankfully. Certainly no evidence to base a mass childhood vaccination programme to protect them on.

Do you have a shielding child? Do you work with children in a hospital setting? Many children remained on the shielding list but of course it isn't in the governments narrative to admit that for many children across the country they have been shielding at home for more than a year, unable to attend schools because they aren't 'covid safe' The families of any CEV child in the vast majority were also shielding. I know parents who have had to give up their jobs because they couldn't WFH and personally the sibling of my child was also not able to attend school for over 13 months. You know why all the vulnerable children haven't died....because they and their families are shielding. Many children have been admitted to ICU and I think peoples impressions are 'they didn't die so children aren't at risk' many of these children admitted to ICU (and yes it includes otherwise healthy children) will have long term health issues now as a result of that. We were in hospital during the pandemic with DC and were kept in complete isolation in there as well with contact with only a small number of staff in full PPE.

And as for children being used as 'lab rats' many of the vulnerable children are exactly that even before covid by way of using medication not licensed for use in children or various different doses. These children will provide data and insight should your child ever require the same treatment at a later date.

if my kids had been vaccinated already then I would not now be stuck in bed unable to care for them as I wish

One benefit that's been cited here for childhood vaccination is the positive impact on schools. The guidelines here say that if you have two confirmed cases in a school, the whole school shuts down for two weeks and the kids have to learn from home while isolating. Not only will vaccination lower the number of cases in schools, if there is a case the vaccinated children will be able to carry on learning in person.

Guidelines can be changed. If there is little community spread and the most vulnerable are vaccinated then that policy may be deemed redundant.

There is already discussion around testing of close contacts replacing self isolation.

@Nappyvalley15

There is already discussion around testing of close contacts replacing self isolation.

This is happening currently in selected schools. Incidentally this was happening in school before Christmas and led to a large spike in community numbers.

Our school has been allowing school staff to test out of quarantining by taking a test first thing each day if they have been exposed. But they don't need to do that any more as the staff have all now been vaccinated.

DD gets her second vaccine today, which means in 2 weeks she will no longer have to quarantine if she's exposed - means she'll definitely be able to take her exams, attend her graduation, go to work, etc.

@Nappyvalley15

Guidelines can be changed. If there is little community spread and the most vulnerable are vaccinated then that policy may be deemed redundant.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the UK now that lockdown is being lifted. It seems unlikely that community spread will stay low, given that so few under 40s have been vaccinated.

@Nappyvalley15 I agree it’s bound to increase, perhaps that’s ok if the risk to the age group is low, i am part of that cohort and have had one vaccine but given am
Currently suffering in bed with covid (kids brought it from school) I wouldn’t wish it on anyone and the experience is only reinforcing my feelings about sticking to whatever guidelines are there right up until they are lifted, I will be back out to shops and cafes etc when I’m better but with caution, I do not want to catch this again and vaccines just mean milder symptoms not zero illness, for me those mild symptoms are still very unpleasant 😕

@ZZTopGuitarSolo

Our school has been allowing school staff to test out of quarantining by taking a test first thing each day if they have been exposed. But they don't need to do that any more as the staff have all now been vaccinated.

DD gets her second vaccine today, which means in 2 weeks she will no longer have to quarantine if she's exposed - means she'll definitely be able to take her exams, attend her graduation, go to work, etc.

Says who?

Says who?

@ZZTopGuitarSolo is in America (Maine, if I recall correctly) so her daughter's activities post-vaccination are subject to state and local rules.

I'm in New York and our rules for the fully vaccinated as also being substantially relaxed.

Says who?

Says the US CDC, the Maine CDC, the Maine Department of Education, the school superintendent, the school board, and the task force set up to safely facilitate the return to school (which has on it doctors, epidemiologists, parents, teachers and students).

...oh, and me.

ZZtop, how old is your DD? If she's graduating this spring she must be very excited. My DD had to have a graduation by time slot appointment last year, which was better than nothing but not great. She then had to do her first semester of uni from her bedroom at home but was able to move to campus in January. Now she has an internship in the neurobiology lab that will keep her there over the summer.

People on MN often forget that not everyone posting here is in the UK. Some of us are even actual Yanks.

It's funny as for years I was living overseas and posting on here so as a rule I don't assume everyone is UK based, I was just so shocked, mainly after a long and unproductive discussion about life after vaccination with a member of my family.
Really interesting to hear that, I didn't mean to be rude.

I was just so shocked, mainly after a long and unproductive discussion about life after vaccination with a member of my family.

It's taking a bit of getting used to for me too. New York is now opening up movie theaters, sporting events, health clubs, etc. for the fully vaccinated. My 21 year old DS has had his second jab and is planning a tour of New England this summer with some of his mates. My 19-year-old DD will have her second jab this weekend and will finally be able to travel and return to campus without isolating for 10 days. We're hoping we can lure her home for a long weekend.

[quote Slowdownandsee]@Nappyvalley15 I agree it’s bound to increase, perhaps that’s ok if the risk to the age group is low, i am part of that cohort and have had one vaccine but given am
Currently suffering in bed with covid (kids brought it from school) I wouldn’t wish it on anyone and the experience is only reinforcing my feelings about sticking to whatever guidelines are there right up until they are lifted, I will be back out to shops and cafes etc when I’m better but with caution, I do not want to catch this again and vaccines just mean milder symptoms not zero illness, for me those mild symptoms are still very unpleasant 😕[/quote]
You’re very unlikely to contract it again. There are plenty of studies showing that people are protected from reinfection for several months.

Canada authorises Pfizer vaccine for children aged 12 to 15

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57000354

Even at 80-90% efficacy significant numbers of adults will remain susceptible post vaccination.

Current planning for Autumn boosters suggests politicians and scientists anticipate waning of vaccine efficacy in adults.

Unclear how vaccinating children who addresses this.

Studies have already shown that immunity wanes faster in the older population. And they’re the more vulnerable groups do it makes sense to plan to give them boosters before the winter.

Pfizer announced top line results of the study in the age 12-15 cohort last week. I do now recall hearing in the news about the 100% efficacy finding. It says that it was well tolerated, which means there were no serious AE's.

Pfizer-BioNTech Announce Positive Topline Results of Pivotal COVID-19 Vaccine Study in Adolescents

The press release also mentions that they started dosing subjects in the younger cohorts last week.