School pupils vaccinated from September

[Totalbeach]

This is in lots of papers today. Such as:

www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/19274021.secondary-school-pupils-set-get-covid-jab-september/

And:

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/02/nhs-england-draws-up-plan-to-give-covid-jabs-to-children-12-and-over

What’s your reaction?

Mine is that I 100% won’t be allowing my children to be vaccinated.

In the whole pandemic so far, 12 children under 15 have died in the U.K. That increases to 32 in the under 20s. The mortality rate is vanishingly tiny. A huge percentage of kids don’t even get symptoms at all.

The government has assured us till they are blue in the face that schools are safe and that children don’t spread it so it will be interesting to see what kind of enormous gaslighting they attempt to pull off to persuade parents they now need to vaccinate their kids.

The long term effects of the vaccines are totally unknown and recent events with AZ have proved rather horribly that even after a vaccine is rolled out, serious effects can come to light. Including events that disproportionately affect certain age groups.

I’m fully vaccinated (including first Covid vaccine) as are my kids but there is no way I’d let them be vaccinated in September. With any of the vaccines.

Theres problems after they've has covid too, I have a friend at GOSH, if you're child is obese of was born very premature they're more likely to suffer the more serious affects of covid.www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/05/up-to-100-uk-children-a-week-hospitalised-with-rare-post-covid-disease

@Rowanapp

Is it ethical to vaccinate healthy children in the UK who I think we can all agree are low risk of death when the vaccinations would save many more lives in India and potentially sub-Saharan Africa?

It isn't an either/ or situation.

We are supporting Covax.

India is a major manufacturer of vaccines.

The UK has had one of the worst death rates from covid in the world, so we need to examine all the options that would help the situation here.

Education is very important, we need to get the risk of spread down in our schools if we can.

Coffeewithcheese I will not be giving consent for my children to have it - I don't believe we have enough long-term data on the risks in a younger population. I also have one child with a history of reacting to other vaccines so I would want a much more clearer longer-term picture before doing so.
*
I will also be persuing complaints right the way up as far as possible if school in any way shape or form tries to stigmatise kids who don't have the vaccination. If confidential information about my kids' medical history is leaked by the school to fuel playground gossip or "who popped the bubble blame" - again I'll be taking action and following up the ladder because I do not believe that it is ever acceptable behaviour - be it for any illness for people to behave like that.

I've had both jabs, both AZ jabs - but if I was still just booking mine now, with how toxic and threatening the discourse has come towards seeking gleefully to exclude those from society who can't, or won't have them - I would not be happy to do so. I was happy that the risks balanced out for myself in terms of the newness of the vaccine - but the way the govt and the govt cheerleaders have played things since then with the coercion of the whole vaccine passports idea, and gleeful suggestions of shunning... THAT is what instills distrust in me and rings alarm bells.*

Totally agree with you. Had my vaccinations too but am utterly appalled at the prejudice towards people who question it already dividing the country. It as bad enough when people scorned adults for questioning it for themselves but the government must be rubbing their hands with glee that we're now all turning on each other as parents. Absolutely horrifying and really very sad that the country has reached these depths.

@herecomesthsun
Thankyou for the links and information
@Roonerspismed
I honestly would really like to see the link to the information you stated, I can't find it.

I'm far more worried about the long term effects of reading Totalbeach's inane antivax diatribe....

I'm far more worried about the long term effects of reading Totalbeach's inane antivax diatribe....

I don’t think someone having concerns over this vaccine makes them anti vax. OP has said her kids are otherwise vaccinated and shes has her first covid vaccine. People should be able to discuss their concerns.

I think rowanapp makes a good point. There is something a little off with us considering vaccinating healthy low risk teens when so many in the developing world are without effective vaccines.

I also wonder if anyone is researching how many teenagers have already had covid and have t cell immunity. If the school spread was as bad as many have said they have witnessed then i wonder what proportion of our children already have some level of protection.

rowanapp

Is it ethical to vaccinate healthy children in the UK who I think we can all agree are low risk of death when the vaccinations would save many more lives in India and potentially sub-Saharan Africa?

UK rates and deaths have been really high - comparatively we have suffered more. 1,500 deaths a day for a population size of the UK is high. On this occasion we need to get ourselves sorted & back up & running with low death toll before we start helping out. When we were struggling I don't recall many other countries helping us out 🤷🏻‍♀️

willower

I will also be persuing complaints right the way up as far as possible if school in any way shape or form tries to stigmatise kids who don't have the vaccination. If confidential information about my kids' medical history is leaked by the school to fuel playground gossip or "who popped the bubble blame" - again I'll be taking action and following up the ladder because I do not believe that it is ever acceptable behaviour - be it for any illness

If they do the vaccine in schools it will be obvious as they all go out of lessons and queue up.

Teenagers do pass it on to their families. They pass it on to each other. If they don't have it then yes they could well burst a bubble. Then they're responsible for several other children missing school.

We live abroad and my dh works for Pfizer. Dd (17) had her fist jab this morning as part of their family vaccination programme. We were all happy about this.

A lot of 'shielding' children went back to school as more information was known. Of those remaining many will be eligible for vaccine and I can absolutely see why a parent would do it in those circumstances. And of those who can't be vaccinated because they are too poorly, then yes, their immune systems would also be at risk from other illnesses.

I just wanted to point out some inaccuracies here - many children continued to be told to shield by their drs/consultants (ds was one of them) - he is not eligible for the vaccine however, as he is 10 and only a very very few children (over 12) have been given the vaccine off licence by their consultants (according to ds's paediatrician). This does not mean that ds is not still extremely vulnerable to Covid. Ds is vulnerable to other childhood illnesses...colds have left him with chest infections and complications and sickness bugs leave him wiped out for weeks and are complicated by his bowel issues. He has the flu vaccine annually and was vaccinated against chickenpox on the NHS. Despite this, pre covid he went to school like everyone else (albeit having pretty low attendance)... Covid is the only time his consultant and GP have said that he should stay home.

Yes my children have it to protect the elderly and vulnerable. But since EVERY ADULT who wants it should be vaccinated by September, who are we vaccinating them to protect?

Well, the vulnerable children sat in classrooms with your non-vulnerable child for starters...

Converse
We do have a low death rate now. The vaccinations are offering a good level of protection to those who would have been most vulnerable. Vaccinating healthy teens is unlikely to impact on our death rate.

By looking out for other countries with vaccines now we help ourselves in the long term.

I don’t think most teens would override their parents though. My kids trust me so I know if I said not to have the vaccine, they wouldn’t.

Totally agree. My children trust me to have their best interests at heart. Plus a lot of kids will be more likely to opt out than in. It’s an injection, after all. And W lot of kids have socialised throughout and had no concern for Covid. People think the world is full of intelligent teens overriding their silly parents and I personally think that’s a tiny minority.

By looking out for other countries with vaccines now we help ourselves in the long term.

If people are really worried about mutations then helping other countries get vaccinated makes a lot more sense.

@AuntMarilla

I don’t think most teens would override their parents though. My kids trust me so I know if I said not to have the vaccine, they wouldn’t.

Totally agree. My children trust me to have their best interests at heart. Plus a lot of kids will be more likely to opt out than in. It’s an injection, after all. And W lot of kids have socialised throughout and had no concern for Covid. People think the world is full of intelligent teens overriding their silly parents and I personally think that’s a tiny minority.

I guess I'm judging on the basis of my dd and her friends. Intelligent, engaged, socially aware. And unfortunately, a handful of them do have fairly silly parents.

But perhaps the kids that I know are not representative, and most teens would just do whatever mum or dad said without bothering to think about things for themselves. Fair enough.

paralysedbyinertia

My children are also intelligent, engaged and socially aware. They would still listen to me.

@KaleSlayer

paralysedbyinertia

My children are also intelligent, engaged and socially aware. They would still listen to me.

I'm not making any comment about your kids, @KaleSlayer. I don't know them, so why would I?

It's more about parenting values, I suppose. I have taught dd to think critically and to decide things for herself. I don't value blind obedience. If she followed my advice without evaluating it properly for herself, despite being old enough and intelligent enough to do so, then I'd feel that I had failed in my duty to encourage independent thinking.

It's not that we wouldn't discuss it - we would, and she would know my thoughts. However, I would encourage her to consider different points of view as well, and to look at all of the available data, rather than just taking my opinion as correct. She is so used to this approach now that she would just do it anyway.

Totally agree again @paralysedbyinertia.

My kids are more than capable of critical thinking. But the fact remains on some things, the fact that I have had to use my critical thinking skills many more times than they have, means that I’m better at it. I will continue as I am and I’m sure you will too.

@KaleSlayer

My kids are more than capable of critical thinking. But the fact remains on some things, the fact that I have had to use my critical thinking skills many more times than they have, means that I’m better at it. I will continue as I am and I’m sure you will too.

Yep, absolutely.

@btwwhichonespink

where children are, I think, coerced into having treatment against their parent's wishes.

Since the OP doesn't have an answer for such questions, I'll try you.

In what ways, and for what means do you believe anyone is trying to "coerce" your child into having this vaccine?

Yep, absolutely.

It’s on the EMA website - last updated 28 April. Actually says 1 in 10,000 now

So is it “1 in 10,000” or “less than 1 in 10,000 @Roonerspismed? It’s quite an important distinction.

I would like to see a study on the level of antibodies/ T cell immunity in those 12 and above. It is quite possible that many have been exposed to Covid already in which case is the vaccine necessary? I am pro vaccine and have had my first dose but I will be more cautious about vaccines for my teen DCs.