School pupils vaccinated from September

[Totalbeach]

This is in lots of papers today. Such as:

www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/19274021.secondary-school-pupils-set-get-covid-jab-september/

And:

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/02/nhs-england-draws-up-plan-to-give-covid-jabs-to-children-12-and-over

What’s your reaction?

Mine is that I 100% won’t be allowing my children to be vaccinated.

In the whole pandemic so far, 12 children under 15 have died in the U.K. That increases to 32 in the under 20s. The mortality rate is vanishingly tiny. A huge percentage of kids don’t even get symptoms at all.

The government has assured us till they are blue in the face that schools are safe and that children don’t spread it so it will be interesting to see what kind of enormous gaslighting they attempt to pull off to persuade parents they now need to vaccinate their kids.

The long term effects of the vaccines are totally unknown and recent events with AZ have proved rather horribly that even after a vaccine is rolled out, serious effects can come to light. Including events that disproportionately affect certain age groups.

I’m fully vaccinated (including first Covid vaccine) as are my kids but there is no way I’d let them be vaccinated in September. With any of the vaccines.

@CutieBear

I think only vulnerable people should be offered the vaccine. The majority of adults and most children aren’t at risk of being seriously sick or dying from covid19 so there’s no point in being vaccinated against it. We don’t know the long term side effects of the vaccines yet. It’s not like cervical cancer or MMR which could seriously damage healthy individuals. Those are vaccines I approve of.

So instead of just having the choice for you and your dependents, you want to remove choice from other people too?

You would have put your children up for the trial? The process that is used to determine whether it’s safe? You would willingly put your children up for that? Wow
I don't understand it either. Unless the child has a vulnerability where it could be worth the risk to get early protection. My child was part of a vaccine trial as a newborn, an extra whooping cough vaccine at birth, but this was the same vaccine as given to all babies at two months, and there was a potential benefit to him. I am not an anti vaxer.

I don't want DS to have the covid vaccine yet, he is 15 so it's his decision, but I'd rather he wait a year or two until things are more clear.

My eldest DC has had 2 x Pfizer already. My other children will have any vaccine offered. (Total transparency - DH works for Pfizer and has no concerns about the vaccines)

I expect we will, not least because these children will turn into adults, becoming more susceptible to the severe effects of C-19 the older they get.

If my DD, 11, wanted to go travelling in ten years, I’d like her to have some immunity from it- I doubt that generation can avoid coming into contact with the virus their entire lives.

@kowari

You would have put your children up for the trial? The process that is used to determine whether it’s safe? You would willingly put your children up for that? Wow I don't understand it either. Unless the child has a vulnerability where it could be worth the risk to get early protection. My child was part of a vaccine trial as a newborn, an extra whooping cough vaccine at birth, but this was the same vaccine as given to all babies at two months, and there was a potential benefit to him. I am not an anti vaxer.

I don't want DS to have the covid vaccine yet, he is 15 so it's his decision, but I'd rather he wait a year or two until things are more clear.

So you think no children should ever be enrolled in any clinical trails for any vaccine, ever? Where do you think this collective mindset would lead us?

And no you can’t just enrol vulnerable children as the first participants. That’s not the group they’re looking for.

You do what you want and stop judging other parents, thanks.

@Lucidas No that's not what I said. My child was in a trial, but one with potential benefit to him. I would never judge a parent for doing what they thought was best for their child.

Yes it's a funny one that @kowari. There is not a snowball's chance in hell I would have signed my children up for these (or any) vaccine trials.

But if they or I had a terminal or terrible illness and a new drug was being trialed then I think my feeling would be completely the opposite.

I expect we will, not least because these children will turn into adults, becoming more susceptible to the severe effects of C-19 the older they get.

If my DD, 11, wanted to go travelling in ten years, I’d like her to have some immunity from it- I doubt that generation can avoid coming into contact with the virus their entire lives.

I agree that my kids may need a vaccine when they become adults but in the years between now and then we will learn so so much more about the long term effects, safety and whether it’s even necessary by then. There’s also no evidence to currently suggest that a vaccine at age 11 will still be working in a year, let alone 10.

So you think no children should ever be enrolled in any clinical trails for any vaccine, ever? Where do you think this collective mindset would lead us?

And no you can’t just enrol vulnerable children as the first participants. That’s not the group they’re looking for.

Trials where there’s a benefit to the participants, yes. And I’d include adult trials of Covid vaccines in that as clearly there are various risks to adults from Covid. But not trials on kids because there is no benefit.

I genuinely don’t think the trials on kids should even be happening. I think they’re downright wrong and parents shouldn’t be allowed to volunteer their kids to be lab rats.

@MintyCedric

And remember, the government already told us kids don’t spread it between them much anyway...

So you'll believe what the government tells you if you happen to agree/it suits your agenda but not.if it doesn't?

Yes, that bit of information given to us worked out so well in the autumn term when they had all school children back at once.

75% of our staff caught covid. Several of our parents did. Many of our children had 'cold like' symptoms but mostly not eligible for testing. The ones that did often had covid too.

And these were young children. It was even worse in our local secondary schools.

Benefits to children from vaccination

1. child might be CV or CEV themself

1. child may come from a family with a strong genetic tendency to conditions that could cause complications in the case of covid infection e.g. vasculitis

1. family may be very vulnerable, this can be a consideration when looking at vaccination for other conditions, like chicken pox for example

1. "long covid" is yet to be fully categorised and understood, but this paper, originally published in the New Scientist, suggests there may be sequelae after infection for up to 50% of children, even if asymptomatic at the time.www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7927578/

Personally, I wouldn't insist on my kids being vaccinated, but I would support their choice.

disclaimer, one DC has taken part in a vaccine trial and the other one chose not to, because of all the testing and monitoring and potential disruption to schooling, but will probably accept a Pfizer vaccination if offered.

We think the risks of vaccination appear very tiny and the overall potential for harm from covid is more significant. Including for our children.

Dd has said form the start she will have the vaccine.
She's now 19y so will have it as an adult by the summer.
She even signed up for the trials though wasn't selected at that time.

She's always been adamant about having all the vaccines she is eligible for and we pay for her to have a flu vaccine every year.

If nothing else she doesn't want to risk not being able to go anywhere etc if other countries decide to go to the vaccine passport route.

She also saw how poorly I was, was scared by me being rushed to a and e and has seen me struggle with longer term effects for the 6 months following me catching covid.

She has been poorly eh]]herself from flu before and it's why she now gets a flu vaccine annually,

Her friend caught a virus a couple of years ago and ended up with temporary paralysis, an ongoing tic and Tourette's type syndrome and now has developed regular seizures.

She knows what a virus can do, so happy to be vaccinated against any viruses she can be. Her choice and decision she's made based in her experience and understanding at this time.

Sorry, another link to the srticle

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0262407921003031?via%3Dihub

So teenagers are going to be immunised before the remaining adults?

The papers suggest that secondary school children might be offered a vaccination in September, presumably before going back to school.

If we are doing 3.5 million shots a week, would we not be likely to have vaccinated all the adults by then?

Some teenagers will already have been vaccinated, if CEV, mind.

Most children's trials (including the Astra Zeneca paediatric trial) do not take children who are medically vulnerable or with extensive underlying health conditions.
I'm not sure how people think medications and vaccines suitable for children ever reach those children, if there are no trials.

There is no way a child will be vaccinated against their parent's consent with this new vaccine. It's a legal minefield.

The hpv vaccine was a new vaccine.
Right from the start children made their own decisions.
Some had it done against parent's wishes.
Some children declined it, also against parent's wishes.

@ConfusedAdultFemale

So teenagers are going to be immunised before the remaining adults?

No, that's not what has been said. The remaining adults in England will all be offered their first vaccine by the end of July. We are still on track for this.

School children, aged 12+ May be offered the vaccine from this Autumn, based in the trials that are currently in place.

This is after all adults in the cu]ok try will have had their first.

It will run alongside those adults having their second vaccines, and potentially the first groups to perhaps get boosters.

Many illnesses are virtually eradicated in the UK. Should we just abandon the entire childhood vaccination programme?*
I mean why give unnecessary medical procedures?*
I mean they're not likely to catch an almost eradicated disease, so why put them through such an evil tirade of injections....*

I wonder why all these diseases are virtually eradicated?*

Oh yes! VACCINES! Who would have thought?!!*

*Note the sarcasm

Well given the MHRA said the AZ vaccine was safe and it was based on trials of 40,000 and we are now looking at 1/10,000 for the platelet issue...mmmmm..... I don’t think so.

Two days ago you were saying 1/20,000, Rooner

Please can you link to your source?

It’s on the EMA website - last updated 28 April. Actually says 1 in 10,000 now.

"I'm not sure how people think medications and vaccines suitable for children ever reach those children, if there are no trials."

I think some people must want to go back to the good old days of my mums childhood where many vaccines didn't exist and children died or were left disabled because of childhood illnesses.

I'd be interested to see that link too @Roonerspismed, I can only see an EMA report from the 23rd April, stating 1 in 100,000.

As you can imagine, having had a medically vulnerable child shield all year, and hoping that a vaccination will help us move forward, I'd like to know all the risks/benefits.

It’s on the EMA website. In the Q and A bit

It’s regularly updated with the new data