Hoping that we won't go back to the "old" normal?

[MakkaPakka84]

I have been chatting to people and by what they are saying it seems the good resolutions made in the last two years are already fading away.

Limiting the amount of unnecessary travel, to save the environment? Some of my colleagues are already planning hop-in hop-out vacations for the whole of next year (20 > air travel trips per year).

Healthy work-life balance, more WFH? The return to the office is already underway and everyone is eager to be back.

I know the past two years have been shit, but I was hoping the pandemic would be a catalyst for positive change in some way. Now even those feeble positives are fading away.

I think the point of this thread, as I read it anyway, was that coronavirus has forced such a massive change upon us with regards to travel/home working, and would it not be good for it to be the catalyst to consider whether we go back to travelling as much as before, given the change has already happened. There has never been an event until this that has forced a change like this so would it not be good if it were the catalyst for addressing climate change more urgently?

I will be going back to travelling as soon as possible. You don't have to.

Climate change isn't the only game in town. The tourism and travel industries employ millions. Not to mention that travel is very - what's that word? - 'meaningful' for a lot of people. So instead of singling out travel as some sort of bogeyman, it needs to be seen in terms of both benefits and drawbacks.

@PostCovidNewMe

Not enjoying the increase in traffic and subsequent noise, pollution and stress since shops opened.

On the other hand, I'm sure the people whose livliehoods depend on those shops are happy to finally be allowed to open again.

I chose to have only one child and I do not own a car so I don't feel guilty about a few trips abroad a year. My carbon footprint is probably smaller than those who chose to have 2+ children and run 2 cars.

You do not need to justify your life and your choices to randoms, you really don't.

I’m on holiday in the lakes right now and it’s just fab.
Windermere is buzzing. Steamers are operating. Loads of people out and about
The countryside is waking up. Magnolia trees are just coming into bloom.
Lots of bars and restaurants doing a roaring trade.
Compared to just two weeks ago..life is feeling more normal than last summer..and I love it.

Even the little local flea pit has an optimistic sign ..saying looking forward to opening in may.

I reckon they’ve all missed us. And oh my god, that ham hock, great chips, home made baked beans and a friend egg was to die for
One of the best meals I’ve had out for a long time.

I literally can’t wait to book our next trip.
We are loving center parc, even without the swimming..and it’s not all in your face mask shit.

Why are you so obsessed with that word 'meaningful'? Wasn't my wording in the first place but it's typical Mumsnet sneering and picking over words whilst wilfully trying to ignore the point the OP was trying to make, even if the words weren't perfect.

I can't understand the massive reaction to coronavirus but the ignorance and unwillingness to make changes necessary to slow climate change which is going to be a far greater issue but there we go. I don't want to live in a world where people's freedoms are curtailed and of course there are huge benefits to travel, but wasn't the OP just saying that people could consider whether we need to go back to travelling quite as often as pre-pandemic? But carry on misconstruing what the point was if you like.

Why are you so obsessed with that word 'meaningful'?

Because the OP’s attempt to distinguish between ‘meaningful’ and ‘frivolous’ travel was both silly and self serving.

Why are you so obsessed with that word 'meaningful'? Wasn't my wording in the first place but it's typical Mumsnet sneering and picking over words whilst wilfully trying to ignore the point the OP was trying to make, even if the words weren't perfect.

The OP said quite specifically that her own extensive travelling was fine because it was 'meaningful' but others' was 'flippant'. That was the point she was making. She was quite clear about it and never apologisd for her choice of words, even though you are seem to be doing so on her behalf.

I can't understand the massive reaction to coronavirus but the ignorance and unwillingness to make changes necessary to slow climate change which is going to be a far greater issue but there we go.

Maybe outline the changes you are going to make first, before demanding that others do?

I don't want to live in a world where people's freedoms are curtailed and of course there are huge benefits to travel, but wasn't the OP just saying that people could consider whether we need to go back to travelling quite as often as pre-pandemic?

If we're talking 'need' then sure, we don't 'need' to go on leisure travel - although as I've said many millions of people are happy that we do as it provides them with livelihoods - but I enjoy travel very much so won't be curtailing it post-pandemic. Maybe the pandemic will lead to a decline in business travel - although let's be realistic, that will be down to cost-cutting rather than concern for the environment, whatever might be said - but for many of us, being unable to travel for the past year has shown us just how much we miss it and are desperate to get back to it. Unless people are prepared to sacrifice something they care about 'for the sake of the environment', they don't get to lecture others.

Or maybe it's clumsy wording @TheKeatingFive and as ever people want to pull it apart? I get what she was trying to say, even if it wasn't perfectly worded.

@LolaSmiles summed it up well for me:

It's common sense that reducing air travel is important as part of a wider climate strategy. This means businesses who have found online meetings work don't need to return to endless short haul flights, and it would be good to consider our own footprint as individuals. But why reflect on that when there's the option to stick the boot into the OP?

Maybe outline the changes you are going to make first, before demanding that others do?
*
At what point have I demanded anyone make changes? As you want to pull apart the language people use, I'd like you to point out where I have 'demanded' anyone do anything, or the OP for that matter?

The changes I am going to make- I don't travel anyway. I'm going to continue working from home part of the time, partly because it will be beneficial for me and partly because it makes sense. I'm considering whether it will be possible for me to go vegan but I struggle with food intolerances so will have to think about it carefully. I try to recycle and have been more mindful of how much water I get through. I try to be thoughtful about it but know I'm not perfect and could do better, but the pandemic has made me consider it more, along with a few other things.

Or maybe it's clumsy wording

Nope, it was silly and self serving as I said. Who is the op to decree what has meaning?

A conversation about climate change is important. To focus only on one issue isn’t very helpful as has been proven time and again. The OPs conflation of all this with COVID restrictions confuses the issue. I don’t know many people who ‘resolved’ to make the restrictions we’ve been forced to live under permanent. The climate change conversation is much more complex than that.

At what point have I demanded anyone make changes? As you want to pull apart the language people use, I'd like you to point out where I have 'demanded' anyone do anything, or the OP for that matter?

Well, you've said that you "can't understand the massive reaction to coronavirus but the ignorance and unwillingness to make changes necessary to slow climate change" which seemed to me as though you were berating others for not making 'changes'.

The changes I am going to make- I don't travel anyway. I'm going to continue working from home part of the time, partly because it will be beneficial for me and partly because it makes sense. I'm considering whether it will be possible for me to go vegan but I struggle with food intolerances so will have to think about it carefully. I try to recycle and have been more mindful of how much water I get through. I try to be thoughtful about it but know I'm not perfect and could do better, but the pandemic has made me consider it more, along with a few other things.

But being 'thoughtful' and 'trying' or 'considering' certain things isn't the same as giving up something you really care about. Like I say, when it really comes down to it very few are actually prepared to make significant sacrifices 'for the environment', so it suits them to focus on something they don't do - such as travel. Kind of like how people will point to activities they don't like - such as restaurants or, yet again, travel - to blame for spreading the virus.

Like I say, when it really comes down to it very few are actually prepared to make significant sacrifices 'for the environment', so it suits them to focus on something they don't do - such as travel.

This is absolutely true.

Well, you've said that you "can't understand the massive reaction to coronavirus but the ignorance and unwillingness to make changes necessary to slow climate change" which seemed to me as though you were berating others for not making 'changes'.

It's not demanding anyone to make changes though? And tbh its the reaction at a government level, ordinary people, although I suppose it is quite odd that coronavirus is such a massive thing to some people yet they really aren't worried about the damage being done to the environment.

I'm not berating anyone either, people clearly have the right to make their own choices but I just think it's a shame not to take the opportunity which has arisen from a horrible situation, to try and do something positive to help another serious global problem. I don't for one second think that people should stop travelling, I just think it would be a shame to miss the opportunity to make some changes that would help slow another crisis.

Ditto travel - people should be doing more travel by train/ferry and less by air, but that won't happen either.

A lot of train travel in the UK is so expensive it's not feasible to use it when the alternatives are cheaper.

Dd is hoping to go to a festival this summer, in England. We also live in England. She will be flying there. The cost of the train was around 3 times dearer, slightly more than that. The time to travel by train, even taking into account getting to the airport, time for check in, etc was also around 3-4 times times longer.

Likewise, dh and I are going on holiday to Scotland in May/June all being well. We are flying - again as it is much much cheaper and takes far less time than going by train. Takes hours longer by car.

So I'm afraid I will be flying for holidays going forward.

I will do what I can in other ways - electric cars, smart meters, recycling, etc - but I won't be stopping flying.

Not only do I intend to travel long-haul next year (DSiS wedding), but my job sees me driving a diesel SUV ( pool car so no choice), over 200 miles a week in a job that can't be done at home, or with a smaller car. Due to the location of where I'm based and where I travel to, electric cars for the next few years are not an option. It's all very well saying "things have to change" but at the moment, for some of us, we have no option but to carry on as we are.

Likewise, dh and I are going on holiday to Scotland in May/June all being well. We are flying - again as it is much much cheaper and takes far less time than going by train. Takes hours longer by car

Yes we have flown the last few times, too. Last year we were going to go by car but didn't go at all because of covid. Oh for the days when we had motorrail - stick your car on the train and go overnight.

Thank you @StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind for making my point a lot more eloquently than I did. It was a clumsy choice of words indeed: English is not my native language, and sometimes nuances might get lost in translation.

When I used the word "flippant" I wasn't trying to express any value judgement on the reasons people have to travel, it was a consideration about the hectic nature of some trips. I was thinking of my siblings who would think nothing of flying out just to spend an afternoon abroad, exclusively because they found a cheap deal online. In my mind, rather than flying out thirty times a year, they could have had longer holidays in fewer places. I am not being snooty about WHY people travel: if you want a beach holiday lounging by the pool because you need relaxation, good for you; if you choose to go and volunteer abroad, that is "meaningful" in a different kind of way.

My original post wasn't just about travelling, however. It was also about trying to adopt a healthier and less stressful way of living, and trying to find balance between home life and work life. The pandemic might have given us the opportunity to improve certain aspects of everyday living, I just don't know whether people will actually be determined enough to make those changes.

In my mind, rather than flying out thirty times a year, they could have had longer holidays in fewer places.

I hate long holidays. I love weekend breaks where I can take in the local culture super quickly and come back refreshed. It’s much more interesting, to me, than 2 weeks in the same place. (Except Japan - I could be there for months on end and not get bored!).

My original post wasn't just about travelling, however. It was also about trying to adopt a healthier and less stressful way of living, and trying to find balance between home life and work life. The pandemic might have given us the opportunity to improve certain aspects of everyday living, I just don't know whether people will actually be determined enough to make those changes.

This is, again, such a personal issue. I’m normally abroad 3-4 times a month for work. It literally doesn’t stop, it’s hectic and during a busy year I’m away for about a third of the year. It’s stressful but so rewarding.

I’ve had almost no work abroad this year. I am SO bored. I have had bouts of depression (long history) due to being bored out of my mind thanks to the dullness of the ‘new normal’. Other people keep saying oh, it must’ve been lovely being at home for such long periods of time. It hasn’t, it’s been horrible. I’ve been depressed, I’ve lost motivation at times and been so unproductive in my job. I’m eating unhealthily and barely exercising. I miss my old routine. For me the balance of home life and work life is being away a lot more than I have been this year. I feel trapped in my own house, in my city, being here all the time. I crave long commutes, queuing at airports, jet lag, and just being stressed and tired but enjoying every minute of it.

I appreciate most people are the opposite, but the pandemic hasn’t given me the opportunity to ‘improve my everyday living’. Quite the opposite. So no, I don’t want to make any changes after we’re out of this nightmare.