Hoping that we won't go back to the "old" normal?

[MakkaPakka84]

I have been chatting to people and by what they are saying it seems the good resolutions made in the last two years are already fading away.

Limiting the amount of unnecessary travel, to save the environment? Some of my colleagues are already planning hop-in hop-out vacations for the whole of next year (20 > air travel trips per year).

Healthy work-life balance, more WFH? The return to the office is already underway and everyone is eager to be back.

I know the past two years have been shit, but I was hoping the pandemic would be a catalyst for positive change in some way. Now even those feeble positives are fading away.

*"Fulfilling" travel grin I've heard it all now.

Flippant travelling for me. Can't wait.*

I love a good flippant holiday, me.

Oh, I spoke too soon! The "childless" () are now indebted for care they may or may not receive in their old age! Priceless.

@Bluntness100

We will all have to reduce air travel, change our cars, our boilers, insulate our homes, consume less, and recycle more

Covid is not going to make me sell my car, stop going on holiday change my boiler and insulating my home due to its age is financially in feasible. I will also consume as I please. What do you think people have tens of thousands of pounds laying around to do that stuff?

This is where the bloody government comes in though, or should!

In 2019 this government gave £10.5bn a year in subsidies to fossil fuel industry, only £7bn to renewable energy.

If we are to meet our climate change mitigation targets then they need to pull their finger out. Individual actions are great but societal change is what's required.

For example gas boilers need to be ripped out en masse and replaced with I don't know, hydrogen if that can be generated in a green way, air source heat pumps, an alternative. But people can't pay or won't want to.

We just got out house insulated and got 2/3 cost paid by a grant. Apparently that grant has now ended and only 10% of the available funding was taken up. Something clearly going wrong there! I wonder if it's because paying that third is still out of reach, or because you've got to be interested in the first place to get it done.

In my book they need to bloody step up or my kids and their kids will pay the price.

[quote MakkaPakka84]@IcedPurple yes, I did travel a fair amount, never super short layovers or meaningless stays though. Every trip had its reasons and was very fulfilling. I am not criticising travelling, I am criticising flippant travelling. Or useless business meetings that could be done remotely.[/quote]
The environmental impact of a flight to Berlin to look at meaningful historical sights is exactly the same as the environmental impact of a flight to Berlin to go clubbing.

Your hypocrisy reminds me of posters who go to the park then complain about other people being at the park. You don’t have any more right to fly than other people do.

It's hilarious that so many of you are getting outraged here, as if the OP has some incredible power to make policy and is going to force you not to take a holiday.

Personally if I never have to hug another adult or set foot in an office again that will be GREAT.

Personally if I never have to hug another adult or set foot in an office again that will be GREAT.

Just make that happen though. No need for a pandemic.

@toolatetooearly

It's hilarious that so many of you are getting outraged here, as if the OP has some incredible power to make policy and is going to force you not to take a holiday.

Personally if I never have to hug another adult or set foot in an office again that will be GREAT.

I think it's more about the hypocrisy. OP has travelled but others aren't supposed.

flippant travel

Oh god I would do anything for some flippant travel right now. I mean, I do my best to be meaningful about it, but mostly I’ll be drinking wine in the sun as soon as I can, with all due flippancy!

Yes. You YABU. Cheers!

I've got some flippant travel planned to the Florida Gulf Coast next year so just keeping everything crossed it can go ahead!

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

I've got some flippant travel planned to the Florida Gulf Coast next year so just keeping everything crossed it can go ahead!

Be careful. I've heard that immigration officials in Florida only permit those who can prove their trip is 'meaningful' or better yet, 'fulfilling'.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

I've got some flippant travel planned to the Florida Gulf Coast next year so just keeping everything crossed it can go ahead!

Caribbean for us. Indulgent flippant travel, bring it on!

I'm really loving the term flippant travel.
Definitely most of the trips I have planned would fall under that - Majorca and Tenerife- just planning to plonk my fat ass on a sun lounger and enjoy the sunshine.

Not quite sure about Dubrovnik as was planning to do Game of Thrones tour which makes it almost meaningful but it's highly unlikely to happen so shan't worry too much.

I get what you were trying to say @MakkaPakka84, that it would be a shame to lose some of the benefits such as flexibility of home working some of the time, and commuting less is good for the environment. I agree about foreign travel as well. It's quite sad to see some of the responses you've had on this thread, everyone knows climate change is a massive issue but wants to carry on and not admit that actually some of the changes the pandemic has brought about such as less travel are actually necessary for the future of the planet. Humanity is idiotic if we do not take climate change every bit as seriously as coronavirus. Coronavirus is insignificant in comparison.

Thanks for the heads up @IcedPurple, I'll bear that in mind as I'm a bit scared of the immigration officials in Florida! I wonder if a visit to the Mouse is meaningful and fulfilling...

@Waxonwaxoff0 the Caribbean is our reserve in case we can't go to Florida!

We had to cancel our last trip to the US in 2019 the day before we were due to fly out so I certainly won't be feeling guilty about this one!

I can’t wait to get back to travel and a normal working schedule. I take around 60 flights a year and that amount was meant to increase slightly last year. It’s not even for holidays but for my job, which has suffered globally as a result of travel being limited. I ‘protect the environment’ in so many ways in my day-to-day life (no children, no car, no meat or fish, no new clothes and the list goes on), that I will not feel guilty for enjoying my work.

everyone knows climate change is a massive issue

It was also a 'massive issue' when the OP, by her own admission, 'travelled the world'.

However, presumably because her travels, unlike ours, were 'meaningful', 'fulfilling' and not at all 'flippant', her carbon footprint was actually negative.

Oh, or for enjoying flippant travel too, once in a while. I guess my trips to enjoy some time in the sun with my family or friends that live thousands of miles away, also counts as flippant travel.

Obviously climate change is a massive issue and needs to be addressed.

I just don’t know why the OP assumed that because people were forcibly stopped because of COVID that this would continue.

And as per usual for Mumsnet people are picking over something that was perhaps clumsily worded (in particular people are enjoying taking the piss over the choice of 'flippant').

I get what OP was saying- travelling for a holiday a couple of times a year- is what I imagine she was trying to say was meaningful.

Taking cheap flights for club nights in Berlin- maybe that is what she meant by flippant? Is it necessary? Or is it actually quite excessive considering the harm it causes when so many do it frequently?

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

And as per usual for Mumsnet people are picking over something that was perhaps clumsily worded (in particular people are enjoying taking the piss over the choice of 'flippant').

I get what OP was saying- travelling for a holiday a couple of times a year- is what I imagine she was trying to say was meaningful.

Taking cheap flights for club nights in Berlin- maybe that is what she meant by flippant? Is it necessary? Or is it actually quite excessive considering the harm it causes when so many do it frequently?

I don't understand the distinction you're making here.

In what way is "travelling for a holiday a couple of times a year" - which is quite a lot - somehow 'meaningful', yet "Taking cheap flights for club nights in Berlin" is 'flippant'? Maybe some people find clubbing to be meaningful?

And what difference does it make to the ozone layer if your trip is subjectively judged to be 'meaningful' or if the flight was 'cheap' or not? It's the same kind of snobbery we saw a few months ago with people tut-tutting at those buying 'cheap tat' in B&Q, but with nothing to say about those buying 'non-essential' posh food in Waitrose.

Taking cheap flights for club nights in Berlin- maybe that is what she meant by flippant? Is it necessary? Or is it actually quite excessive considering the harm it causes when so many do it frequently?

But why is it different taking a flight to go clubbing than to see a friend for example? I’m not defending the former, and wouldn’t do it myself, but if I have the right to get on a 70 minute, £10 flight to see a friend, I can’t tell someone else that their reason isn’t good enough or justifiable enough.

an 11 year old is very different to a 5 year old

Not everyone who needs childcare has a 5 year old.

Depends doesn't it @IcedPurple. If someone's only trip abroad in a year is an overnight stay to go clubbing in Berlin, that's hardly an excessive carbon footprint is it. And yes, just as 'meaningful' to some people as 2 weeks in Italy or wherever so I agree it's wrong to judge in that regard but this is what I mean by picking over clumsy use of language- I get what OP was trying to say even if the choice of words wasn't spot on.

I just think people should be considering whether it's necessary to travel so frequently, because of the harm it is causing the environment. I dunno, the past years has been so fucking shit, I'd like to at least think of a few positives coming from it and if it made people consider continuing some of the changes that the pandemic has forced in order to help the environment that would be a good thing.

but in some jobs it does have to be done then between 9-5 or 8-6 whatever , it totally depends in the job. Some people couldn't leave to pick up a child etc during working day , so it varies between jobs and of course many jobs simply cannot be done from home

In many jobs it could be if people weren't stuck in the dark ages.

But I'm heartily sick of people deciding that because some jobs can't be done that way, none should.